Dominate Person - Question

[Jcosby]

Ok, I have a question about Dominate Person as per "Vampire" creature. I'm going to explain a hypothetical situation where the Dominate Person is cast onto a player.

Lets say that a party of players engage a Vampire (Happens to be an Anti-Paladin from APG, with a Vampire Template, Level 6). The Vampire uses his Dominate(Su) ability which takes a full round. We are going to assume the target player fails the first Will save. The begining of the next round before the Vampire gets to go another player casts "Protection from Evil" onto the player which currently has the Dominate effect on them. The "Protection from Evil" spell specifically states that it does not prevent the Dominate Spell from landing and will not remove the Dominate effect if it's already on the player, but it does prevent the player from being commanded.

Now the Vampire has not gone yet in the round after successfully dominating a player so he has not had the time to issue a command yet, as the command take a "Move Action" and the spell requires a Full Round action to cast. Now the vampire cannot issue a command to the player.

My real question is... What state is the player in? After reading everything I can on the Vampire Dominate(Su) ability, Dominate Person Spell, Protection from Evil I would assume the player would be in a "Dazed" state awaiting a command they can not receive until the Protection from Evil is removed.

I'd be interested in seeing what everyone else thinks.

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Stumblewyk]

By my reading of Protection from Evil, the dominated PC would immediately be granted a second save with a +2 morale bonus.

If the PC succeeds on this new save, the effects of the Dominate Person power would be suppressed for the duration of the PfE spell, meaning the PC is free to act of their own volition until PfE ends. When PfE ends, the PC resumes being Dominated as normal. If the PC fails this new save, Dominate performs as normal and the vampire is free to issue it's commands as it pleases.

 

[paradox42]

That's not how Dominate works. The victim isn't a robot, and the Dominate effect doesn't mean that the victim can do nothing while not being commanded- what it means is that any command sent by the caster of the Dominate absolutely must be obeyed by the victim, without question, immediately (unless the command said to do otherwise of course).

So what happens with the Protection spell, or any other spell that suppresses but doesn't remove the Dominate effect, is that the Protected-but-Dominated victim can act normally until the Protection wears off.

 

[Jcosby]

Thanks, that makes sense. So it's really up to the PC to make the first or 2nd save granted by the PfromE. Also, more importantly as you say they are not a Robot.

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Salthorae]

Hmm, I hadn't read the updated PF text for that spell. It's incredibly nerfed from the 3/3.5 version which just immediately stops the Dominate/Charm effects from effecting the creature for the duration of PfE.

I would agree based on the PF wording that the player in your example would get an immediate new save, though note it would be at a total of +4 (+2 Morale +2 Resistance) from the first effect of PfE vs. the DC of the Dominate effect. If successful, the Dominate is supressed for the duration of PfE and the player can act as normal, otherwise the player is Dominated.

Couple of other points...

1. The Vampire's Dominate ability is "Su", which is a Supernatural ability that acts as a Dominate Person spell (CL12). Using a Supernatural ability in combat is only a Standard Action Actions in Combat even in Pathfinder. So... your Vampire could Dominate a player and command them in the same round.

2. Issuing a command to the player such as "attack the party" likely constitutes an "action against (the player's) nature" which would generate another Saving Throw attempt to completely shrug off the Dominate effect. See Clarification under the Dominate Spell.

 

[frankthedm]

That's not how Dominate works. The victim isn't a robot, and the Dominate effect doesn't mean that the victim can do nothing while not being commanded-

Once a command is given, the dominated IS basically a robot.

Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject's behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).

 

[gamerprinter]

Once a command is given, the dominated IS basically a robot.

Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject's behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).

This is how Dominate Person works. The only way a dominated person can get additional saves each round after being dominated, is if the command is something that the character would never do normally, such as committing suicide or similar.

 

[paradox42]

Once a command is given, the dominated IS basically a robot.

Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject's behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).

Fair enough. But that doesn't change the answer for the OP, which is that under a Protection spell, the victim can act normally. The Protection spell prevents the Dominate from working. Therefore, the victim is able to act normally.

 

[Salthorae]

But that is only true for the Pathfinder version of Protection IF they make their will save that it allows, otherwise they continue to be dominated.

 

[DogBackward]

Actually, in your example, the target of the Dominate Person would be unaffected completely by the Dominate Person.

When a spell has a casting time of "1 round", it doesn't mean it takes a full round action and then it's cast. It means it takes a full round action, and then it's cast at the start of your next turn. So, for example, Sleep doesn't go off the same round you cast it, it goes off just before you take any actions on your next turn. Protection from Evil makes the target immune to any further attempts to hit it with possession or control while it lasts, so the Vampire's Dominate Person would fail on that target. If you don't cast it immediately, then the Vampire will always have an action to give a command, since he will have started his turn already.

So, in your example:

1. Vampire begins casting Dominate Person. Turn ends.
2. Ally casts Protection from Evil on the assumed target of Dominate Person.
3. Vampire finishes casting Dominate Person on its next turn, and is unable to target the immune character.

However, targeting happens when the spell is finished, not when it begins. So the Vampire, assuming it realizes that you've put a Protection from Evil on the target (with a Spellcraft check), will simply choose a different target to Dominate. Most likely you, since you've just shown that you have defenses against its powers.

Your best bet to defend against a Dominate like that is a Circle of Protection.

As for your actual question, I would rule that the "... exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth)." part is part of the control that's suppressed by the Protection. Which means the character would be able to act normally.