Down to At-Wills

[Thasmodious]

Many have described long fights eventually coming down to just repeat blasting with at will powers. Am I alone in not seeing this as some problem or design flaw? Everyone seems to want to "fix" this.

In 3e, nearly every fight, the barbarian raged and charged, then 5' step full attack, repeat. Fighter same thing, minus the rage, etc. That's all been gone on about for years.

In 4e, it can take 6+ rounds for even a low level character to run out of encounters, dailies, action points and other options and be down to just his at wills. At that point, the fight has been a knock down, drag out battle. Is that a bad thing? Think about two boxers or MMA fighters still going at it in the last round, exhausted, no illusion of fancy moves, footwork, flying knees, devastating power combos or any of that left, they just breath heavy and jab, or the jiu-jitsu guys tries to fall on his opponent and stay on top.

First, its only an issue on long fights at low level and even then the at wills for most classes don't leave you without options - fighters can still push or cleave, clerics have a range of choices that buff the party while laying down damage, warlocks can blast away or eyebite, and so on. And that's at 1st level.

I just don't see the problem of long fights eventually becoming a bit repetitive in the late rounds.

 

[Crothian]

I think a simple solution is just in the way the players speak. A game where everyone goes "I hit him" can get boring. But a game in which people say things like "I swipe at his left side with my sword" and the next round "I follow through with an over hand sword strike" can liven things up even though it is the exact same mechanically.

It is one of the reasons I think everyone should play Feng Shui RPG at least once.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

Why don't you discuss this here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=225125

 

[DandD]

Seeing as with higher levels, you do have more powers, and according to the tiers-excerpt, there might even be mechanics to regain encounter and daily powers, I don't see any problem with it. And of course, both sides, player characters and monster should spice battle up by using the terrain to advantage. It's just so that most people have been conditioned to simply do the charge-full attack-full attack-pattern for melee types, while wizards and clerics simply blasted all their best spell like a supernova with quickened metatechniques and such all in one or two rounds max. There was no need to move at all in pen-and-paper-combat. At least in console action games like Zelda and such, you have to be on the move while waiting for doing your counter- and special attacks.

 

[Cadfan]

It is one of the reasons I think everyone should play Feng Shui RPG at least once.

This. If I do anything to houserule 4e at all, it will be adding something like Feng Shui's reward system for cool descriptions of attacks.

 

[deathdonut]

This is a very short-lived problem specific to low level hero's fighting SOME solo mobs.

Instead of discussing when it is a problem, here's a list of when it is NOT a problem:

1) Mid and high level combatants: They have plenty of abilities to choose from.
2) When fighting multiple opponents: Movement and targeting options give variability.
3) Controller effects: Mobs with refreshing controller effects provide variability
4) Dynamic environments: Wind gusts, lava flows, rolling bolders, etc. keep players awake.
5) Mobs that change: If a mob switches tactics/abilities when bloodied, it's a nice change.

If you pit a low level group against a solo opponent, just make sure you toss in some variability. The reason this comes up is that everyone seems to be running a bunch of level 1's against the level 4 solo dragon. That (while not horrible) is perhaps the worst situation for this effect. If you want to run that encounter, put a knock down on the tail swipes and/or a cooldown on the fear and suddenly it's fixed.

 

[Grimstaff]

My 4E dungeoncrawl last week taught the players real fast to hoard those encounter and daily powers. The at will abilities quickly became SOP whereas the special stuff was saved for dire straits. So at-wills changed from being "all I can do after my good stuff is gone" to "how can I make the most of these 2 or 3 at-wills and save my powerful stuff for a pinch". They started getting really creative with the at-wills, assisting each other with them, changing up, etc.

I suspect the problem mentioned by the OP will diminish as players start getting involved in full-length games, as opposed to 2 or 3 encounter demos, where they know they can burn that good stuff with impunity.

 

[Scalding]

I've run and played in several 4E fan games, and I'm continually surprised to be reading about this problem. In our games the diversity of At-Will powers and everyone's mobility in general has kept things lively even after all daily and encounter powers have been exhausted.

For example, the Cleric would alternate between Lance of Faith and Sacred Flame, the Paladin would similarly alternate between Bolstering Strike and Holy Strike, and so on. The Fighter had it worst, as his At-Will abilities have certain situations where they're useful, so he might sometimes use his basic attack for various stretches of the game. Even then, remember that these are Level 1 characters, and to me they seem adequately powered and diverse.

 

[SilverAgent]

This. If I do anything to houserule 4e at all, it will be adding something like Feng Shui's reward system for cool descriptions of attacks.

Just being pedantic, but outside (I think, it's been a while) the magic, Feng Shui didn't have a reward system for descriptions. It had a -penalty- system. If you were 'boring' the GM was encouraged to give you a -1 or -2 to your roll. Not quite the same thing as a bonus for cool descriptions, though honestly something I prefer to the Exalted method.

 

[mlund]

This. If I do anything to houserule 4e at all, it will be adding something like Feng Shui's reward system for cool descriptions of attacks.

There are some things that Feng Shui does so brilliantly I can't help but co-opt them into D&D. That's one of my favorites.

I also like keeping the scene somewhat mutable. I'll give a general description of the area - highlight key features and the like. If they players want to make some convenient additions to the area (swing from the chandelier, topple the book case, bull-rush with a bench, etc.) that jive cleanly with what I describe to them, I'm all for it.

- Marty Lund