Dragging a party member out of harm's way?

[klobbermeister]

Hey all,

How would you adjudicate this:

Wizard is prone, still conscious and in harm's way. On the cleric's turn, he wants to pull the wizard out of harm's way. Wizard is willing.

The rules as written allow an unconscious PC to be grabbed as an object (minor action) and moved (move action).

The existing rules for grabbing a conscious PC would require a grab (standard) and then moving a grabbed target (standard). Does that seem awkward?

I'd love to hear this comminity's response on how they'd adjudicate the situation, as to how many of which actions it would take to move a prone, conscious and willing ally out of harm's way.

Thanks!

 

[Thasmodious]

If the PC is willing, it would be no different than dragging an unconscious PC, why would you think it requires a standard action grab? That's a combat action to immobilize a target. "Helpless allies are treated as objects". So, the willing PC becomes voluntarily helpless to the grabbing PC and he uses the dragging rules to get him out of the way.

 

[thc1967]

That's an interesting twist. Are you sure the rules for grabbing a conscious PC don't refer to an unwilling conscoius creature? I could see both actions requiring a standard action if they were opposed.

I would probably adjudicate it as minor/move since he won't oppose the action.

I would also refer your players to the myriad of powers that Warlords, Fighters, Clerics, and Rogues have to move willing allies.

 

[klobbermeister]

If the PC is willing, it would be no different than dragging an unconscious PC, why would you think it requires a standard action grab? That's a combat action to immobilize a target. "Helpless allies are treated as objects". So, the willing PC becomes voluntarily helpless to the grabbing PC and he uses the dragging rules to get him out of the way.

Right, we came up with the above option too... but if the PC chooses to be "helpless" then how long does the PC stay helpless? Until the beginning of it's next turn? The wizard didn't want to be helpless, as it was in danger.

And then, if not "grabbed" and "moved while grabbed" but dragged, does the dragged PC provoke OAs? He wouldn't if he were Grabbed...but merely pulled as an object? (This was another reason the wizard chose not to be voluntarily helpless.)

(edit: FWIW, I know that Grabbing is intended to be against an unwilling opponent. But the rules as such don't allow for dragging allies. So this is mostly a discussion of applicable rules as written.

Thanks for your replies so far.)

 

[Hella_Tellah]

Since it's not addressed as a separate rule of its own, use the generic rule: STR vs DC. It sounds like the fighter was trying to pull the wizard out of combat, so he shouldn't be automatically successful, but it shouldn't be based on the wizard's Reflex, either, since the wizard isn't resisting. So I'd use STR vs. a moderate DC for the level (15+1/2 level), and the fighter slides the wizard one square. Any better than that, and it's competing with the 2nd-level Fighter utility, "Get Over Here."

 

[reff42]

potential abuse if you have/are a negligent DM:
Player 1 uses a minor action to 'pick up' player 2, double runs, drops him as a free action.
Player 2 uses a minor action to 'pick up' player 1, double runs, drops him as a free action.
total movement= 4x run

 

[Shroomy]

Sounds like its a time for DMG pg 42.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Exchanging a minor + a move action for a limited (1 square only) move action sounds fine to me. I might even add that when something like this is done, the recipient ends up prone, just to make really sure that the benefit gained is specific and not without penalty.

 

[klobbermeister]

Thanks Hellah and Shroomy,

I 'd missed that. Simple solution. Covers a whole panorama of issues.

Yay!

 

[Oompa]

I would ask the wizard how he would react when someone grabs him and pulls him away..

If the wizard doesnt want to be pulled away, str vs str, if wiz wins he stayes, if loses he moves the distance the str check won..

If the wizard wants to be pulled away he can move the max movement of his own or his puller if that is lower. BUT! he would lose his move action in his upcoming turn.. because he willingy moved away..

If the wizard is unconscious, just the normal drag object ruling.