Dragon 363 - Epic Binders

[Stalker0]

Hi Stalker,
A great idea. Alas, various limitations prevent me from doing so. Even if the Tome of Magic binder were OGL, the use of the d20 license precludes the use of certain words and terms except as defined in the license. Eeek. Fortunately, word-of-mouth is often, in the long run, a powerful way to advertise.

I suppose I could say:

"Have you enjoyed other d20-System products with binders and pact magic? You will be able to continue your journey in a familiar way using Secrets of Pact Magic. This 336-page tome contains...."
Gives new meaning to the term, "Creative advertising."

In retrospect, do you think this might have drawn you in?

Definitely, the mention of the binder instantly tells the person that this may be something they can use wiht their current binder character, which to me is the initial draw.

 

[Engilbrand]

I noticed that it's going to update to 4th edition. It seems like that will happen pretty quickly after the release of the new edition. Are you even sure that some of that stuff will still work with it all? I love Binders, but they seem to straddle the editions as it is, I don't know how they would play in the new one.

 

[AncientSpirits]

I noticed that it's going to update to 4th edition. It seems like that will happen pretty quickly after the release of the new edition. Are you even sure that some of that stuff will still work with it all? I love Binders, but they seem to straddle the editions as it is, I don't know how they would play in the new one.

Great question. I've followed the 4th edition rules-lite and so forth. The binder never fit the magic system in 3.5 and the easiest path seems to continue along those lines. I was finishing the book when 4th Edition was announced, and incorporated some 4th edition concepts. For example, the 4 roles (leader, striker, defender, controller) are covered by the 8 classes. The Occult Priest and Warbinder are leaders, for example. Both have some healing, buffing of allies, ability to aid or motivate others, etc.


The 4th edition binder will get 4-6 powers from a vestige (spirit). Some are per encounter, some are per day, and some are at will. Any of the current abilities that requires the binder to wait 5 rounds to use again will likely become per-encounter abilities. Some magic from 3.5 like fly and invisibility appear to have been nurfed or moved to higher levels. Rather than alter the powers currently mentioned for each spirit, I'll nurf them some of them or make them less accessible (flight moved from 1/5 rounds to daily power, etc).

We have little (no?) idea yet how multi-classing will work, so I'm not sure the 8 classes in Secrets of Pact Magic will be ported over to the 4th edition. I suspect a few of them will, but not all, and we'll allow Wizard Training or other feats to handle the rest.

Obviously the prestige classes are gone. But that's OK, because many of the their abilities can be options for the base classes instead. I've already made a list of how that will work. Only a few that are obviously high-powered like the Esoteric Traveler will become a Paragon Path instead.

Yes, it'll be a fair amount of work. The amount of work to convert from one edition to another is an interesting way to measure how different two editions are. But I've got a plan and I'm a teacher, so when I have time, I have time.

All this assumes there will in fact be a new license to allow 3rd parties to participate in 4th Edition. Ultimately, the bars that is raised might be too restrictive or expensive to overcome. Let's hope for the best!

 

[kenmarable]

Ah, if your the author I have a suggestion. Make it clearer when advertising your product that it actually works with the TOM binder!! I looked at the product thinking it neat, but I figured it was a completely different pact magic idea, not an extension of the current model.

It wasn't until this thread that my eyes were opened.

As mentioned above, legally, he couldn't. However, this not only plays nicely with ToM Binder, but it can replace it (shhh, don't tell WotC I said that, ToM was my favorite book of 3.x). With the more robust options in Secrets of Pact Magic (heck, the book is devoted entirely to Pact Magic and I believe is much larger than all of Tome of Magic, so obviously it'll be more robust), it's actually now my main source of the binder, and ToM is an accessory for it!

Personally, I've found that to use ToM's vestiges as SoPM's spirits, since the spirits go up to 9th level rather than 8th, I have al 8th level vestiges get bumped to 9th and then see if one or two might be a bit weaker and fine at 9. Bump most of the 7th level vestiges up to 8th (again, seeing which ones are on the weaker side and leave them at 7th, and generally try to leave several at that level), and then see if a few 6th level ones could use a bump. Overall that seems to balance things out well. Then they just could each use a capstone ability (extra ability if you make the binding check by a lot).

 

[Piratecat]

Trapper Keeper makes some incredibly epic binders.

...what?

 

[Nifft]

When I saw the thread title, the first thing I thought of was a Trapper Keeper.

Trapper Keeper makes some incredibly epic binders.

...what?

You're slow, that's what.

Cheers, -- N

 

[moritheil]

IIRC the 3E ToM strayed kinda close to some real world occult themes, including the binder glyphs, but this time...

Bind Amun-her Khepeshef "Desecrated Scion" [Epic Vestige]
Once the firstborn heir to his people's kingdom, Amun-her Khepeshef represents the souls of the firstborn sons of the empire, whose lives were tragically extinguished by the god of their slaves. The collective will of the spirits begged the death-god for oblivion, becoming the vestige known as Amun-her Khepeshef.

I can't be the only one who noticed this...

Well, they've never really hidden the fact that much of their inspiration comes from old religious or mythic tales. I mean, look at the cleric spell list . . .

 

[Enforcer]

The influence for Amun-her Khepeshef is well-timed... Passover starts in a few days.

 

[Piratecat]

You're slow, that's what.

Cheers, -- N

Damn it! That'll teach me.

Is it an abuse of admin powers to edit out the other joke?

 

[Nifft]

Damn it! That'll teach me.

Is it an abuse of admin powers to edit out the other joke?

Yes, that would be totally inappropriate. I'm disappointed you even mentioned it.