Dragon 373 - Party Building

[Shroomy]

I didn't get a chance to read it yet, but whoah, there's charts and everything. Looks like a lot of advice.

Dragon 373: Party Building

 

[Nymrohd]

Pretty much tons of charts on how race benefits and class ability dependence interacts.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I liked the A vs V shaped terminology for class designs.

(A classes have one primary stat, V classes have two, depending on the build direction you take).

I wonder if this was a term the designers always used internally, or the author made up for this article to describe it.

 

[Obryn]

I liked the A vs V shaped terminology for class designs.

(A classes have one primary stat, V classes have two, depending on the build direction you take).

I wonder if this was a term the designers always used internally, or the author made up for this article to describe it.

I'm not sure, either, but I was noticing that the PHB2 classes are all designed along the same lines as the Rogue and Warlord, instead of along the same lines as the Cleric and Paladin.

And thank goodness, really. I think the designers have come to the conclusion that a class with two primary attack stats and a single secondary effect stat might as well be two completely different classes, each with half the options of a normal class. I agree with this decision completely, for what it's worth. I'm glad they've assessed what does and doesn't work in PHB1, and have adjusted their design appropriately.

-O

 

[Nymrohd]

I seem to have read somewhere that they are considering adding a third secondary score to some of the A type classes. That could be interesting for some concepts.

 

[Mengu]

I like the article, I didn't get anything new out of it, it's all pretty obvious stuff to me, but the article definitely has the right tone and good advice for new players.

I noticed one mistake. Elf ranger not optimal?

 

[Obergnom]

Well, I really think this should have been in the PHB2. Now I have to force my players to read it

I think this is a great article, really useful for those players who do not want to spend to much time figuring out how the game works. I think the essentials are in there.

 

[Obryn]

I seem to have read somewhere that they are considering adding a third secondary score to some of the A type classes. That could be interesting for some concepts.

That would be another strength of designing classes this way, IMHO.

I think you already see this with Fighters, at least when you bring in Martial Power. Powers with special effects for Axes/Hammers use Con, Light/Heavy blades/Flails use Dex, Polearms use Wis.

Basically, there's more realistic available design space, imho, when you keep classes to a single main attack stat and multiple secondary effect stats. Making a whole set of class powers that use other attack stats just splits the class. By and large, characters can reasonably afford one main stat, and one strong secondary stat... And with characters needing every bonus to Attack they can grab, it's rough to even lose a few points.

With that said, I think you can easily make extra Powers for A-type classes that use one of the Secondary stats as the main attack stat. (I think a few Warlock powers have come out like this, using Intelligence for the attack.) It's still a penalty to-hit, but if the effect is cool enough, it's all good!

-O

 

[Tancread]

After a couple of drop outs my home group is struggling a bit with party make up, I will be sending them this so they can think about what new players should be focusing on. Really good summary of where the game is at for character types at the moment.

 

[Rechan]

It honestly never occured to me, until I saw people trying to force it, of players trying to straddle the Two-Primary stat classes. I always looked at the Paladin/Cleric as a fork in a road; you either went one way (stat-wise), or the other, rather than try to play both primary stats.

I liked that the classes were two sub-classes under one heading, because they felt very different while still having the same overall fluff. It allowed a frontline cleric and a ranged cleric, as opposed to just one or the other. (However, now the Bard does this, splitting Melee and Ranged while still using the Primary).

The biggest drawback that I've found to the split-classes (as the article notes, V shaped) is that some levels, the powers overly favor one over the other, resulting in no choices. There's a level of Paladin where all the powers are Cha-based. There's a level of cleric where you have one Wisdom-primary power, one Str power, and then two non-stat relying powers (level 5, I believe).