Dragon Con: A Sight of the Schism in action

[Shemeska]

How does it look with the World of Darkness games and Shadowrun? Both had major edition changes, too, right? Is it really that much better, or it just less visible because they are less players and less online activity (not to mention EN World activity?)...

I'm not on Dumpshock enough to really comment on any SR3 v SR4 issues online, but I've never seen anything negative between various edition players at conventions. They had a pretty massive turnout for the Catalyst SR Q&A at GenCon, and a raise of hands there was pretty diverse for what edition people were playing, or had started with (as I recall). My current group is using SR3, but I've played SR4 and I can go with either one. I've never been told that X edition of SR sucks, or I'm playing a discontinued edition, or that SR X ruined the game, etc.

However the big difference there is that changes are largely mechanical in nature, while between D&D 3.x and D&D 4e, there are also massive flavor changes to the game itself, which makes for a very different experience. That's why I would expect the community schism between prior editions of D&D and 4e to be on another level entirely versus some other games with different editions.

 

[Jack99]

On the other hand, over the course of the weekend, about 3 or 4 times people did wander past tables I was playing at and mutter insults at 4e and people who played it.

One time someone wandered past me and asked me what edition we were playing and I answered "4th". They said something to the effect of "Oh, I can't believe they destroyed D&D like that. Is there any 3rd edition games here?" and I said "No, this is the RPGA room, they only support the current edition of D&D." and they said "Looks like I'll have to come back next year when 5e comes out." and wandered away.

For real?

Maybe the next time, you should have told their parents that such behavior is not acceptable.. because this was kids, right? Like young teenagers or something like that?

 

[Rechan]

How does it look with the World of Darkness games

I have several friends who are into WoD, and the New World of Darkness (Well, at least Vampire, Werewolf and Mage) is considered a steaming pile to all of them.

The primary reason is the setting reboot (they went from 12 organizations to 5). There's also annoyance over a rule change or two. But it's the setting/fluff retooling.

 

[bielmic]

From my experience, the tone of these people is never nice. See below.

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One time someone wandered past me and asked me what edition we were playing and I answered "4th". They said something to the effect of "Oh, I can't believe they destroyed D&D like that. Is there any 3rd edition games here?" and I said "No, this is the RPGA room, they only support the current edition of D&D." and they said "Looks like I'll have to come back next year when 5e comes out." and wandered away.

it may not be nice but neither is it particularly rude. if they interupted your game to find out what you were playing (a normal common convention experience) and responded to your answer with a single sentance, that's not rude unless they did so in a SNL chris farley screaming manner. that's just expressing an opinion (to which yours regarding the same system is equally valid). to the guy who posted earlier in the thread stating that he would respond with violence to something like that, you deserve any jail time you would get for doing so but i suspect you're probably just excercising your massive internet muscles and are really as gentle as a flea when confronted with adversity in real life.

what would be rude is if he/she continually interupted your game while attempting to "convince" you of the validity of his opinion. personally, i think people should just simply play what they like and leave the edition discussions for con hotel bar rooms, empty tables, and internet forums.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I have several friends who are into WoD, and the New World of Darkness (Well, at least Vampire, Werewolf and Mage) is considered a steaming pile to all of them.

The primary reason is the setting reboot (they went from 12 organizations to 5). There's also annoyance over a rule change or two. But it's the setting/fluff retooling.

Seems to me as if setting reboots don't make a lot of friends, overall.

Though Shadowrun 4E kinda does that, too. Though maybe not to that extent? I know the change of every spellcaster being able to spontanously summon and to conjure via ritual didn't appeal to all players in my group.

 

[Cadfan]

I feel like there's a bit of a different vibe over at Catalyst, a general feeling that Catalyst is protecting games that otherwise would be dying. This creates a much more positive attitude.

Disclaimer: my interaction with Catalyst is mostly, though not solely, through Battletech rather than through Shadowrun.

 

[Mark]

In general? I see some of it; there's a guy who shows up every session of my LFR game (shoutout to Renaissance Games) and he's never shy about saying he dislikes 4e. I sort of wonder why he doesn't just go play Pathfinder, since he likes it more. He apparently feels some obligation to play RPGA events. (Yeah, I know, it's odd.)

He probably feels doubly disenfranchised, losing his game as well as his gaming network.

We may be looking as much or more at a social communication phenomenon as we are a game that doesn't meet the desires of the customers.

I suppose the disenfranchised D&Ders felt more isolated prior to the advent of the Internet. The two facets probably feed one another.

 

[The_Gneech]

The only gaming I did at Dragon*Con was one session of Swashbuckling Adventures d20 -- and that largely because the Call of Cthulhu session I wanted was taken.

That said, I went specifically looking for some 4E to try out, but like the previous poster couldn't find any except for the Cheese Grinder. There were a lot of 1E "nostalgia games" going on, and a variety of 3.x/d20 variations, but no 4E. Of course, if it was all over in "Living FR," that would explain why I didn't see it -- I'm not a member of the RPGA and have no plans to join.

What bothered me more was the lack of 3rd party 4E support in the dealer room. Only Troll & Toad had any Goodman Games, and that was only two modules. Several dealers had the WotC stuff, of course, but what's the point of flying to Atlanta to buy that when I can get it for 10% off at the Barnes & Noble up the street? I had hoped to come home with a suitcase full of Punjar and maybe a few others ... instead, I ended up spending what gaming money I did on some dice at the Chessex table, and a small handful of miniatures.

A real disappointment, in all. The 4E situation with third party companies is scandalous.

-The Gneech

 

[AllisterH]

Seems to me as if setting reboots don't make a lot of friends, overall.

Though Shadowrun 4E kinda does that, too. Though maybe not to that extent? I know the change of every spellcaster being able to spontanously summon and to conjure via ritual didn't appeal to all players in my group.

Welll, SR isn't really a setting reboot. It basically just moves the timeline up a few years and that's it. It basically is the same method as was done for the 3e FRCS when you compare it to the 2e Boxed set.

Same general setting moved up a few years with a couple of rules change.

The difference with BOTH WoD and D&D is they did both. Reboot the settings AND reboot the rules at the same time. Basically, the people who invested in the setting feel like their time was wasted (even though they still have their same experiences) and of course, they are the most vocal.

The guy that may just be tangentialy interested in the game isn't one to complain loudly across the net.

There probably would've been MASSIVE outcry if say for example Crisis on Infinite Earth had taken place in the Internet age. Both marvel and DC pretty much need reboots IMO but both are too scared to pull the lever and have found ways around it (Marvel by creating the Ultimate Line and DC by having min-reboots every 3-4 years and quietly changing stuff)

 

[Henry]

I may be alone in this, but I often go to cons and gamedays to play games I DON'T normally play from week to week. 4E might not be as representative because many of these people have access to a 4E game normally. Last Gencon I went to, I played Spycraft, Iron Heroes, d20 Modern, Original D&D, etc. -- games I don't normally get to play a thome. These days, if I went, I'd be looking for a game of 4E, because all I've had time for is a game of Star Wars that another DM is running (an excellent campaign, by the way!)