Dragon Con: A Sight of the Schism in action

[Wicht]

*I'm not saying anyone has SAID overtly "WotC's data is wrong". But a reader can get the impression that the data is wrong from a multitude of posters saying that they don't qualify.

I think that I was trying to say that if WotC decides that 35+ gamers don't bvuy and therefore stop marketing to them, it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. I'm also saying that when one does such a study and gets such results, if it was my company, the question I would ask would not be, "How can we better market to the younger crowd that is already buying more than the older crowd." I would ask myself how I could better serve the older crowd which I would calculate to have more money to spend.

 

[Abciximab]

I wonder about this claim that 35+ gamers stop buying. I turned 36 this year and I have spent more on gaming this year and last than I have the years before. For one thing Paizo really sold me on their products and I've been buying and subscribing to their stuff consistantly. I've encouraged gaming in all 4 of my children and even this year took the whole family to Origins where we spent even more money on game books and dice. But besides that, older players (I would think) would tend to have more money - even if they also have more expenses. I won't argue that WotC didn't do the study but if it was my business I would be looking at ways to market to us older players, not ways to write us off. Buts its not my business.

I wonder as well. I'm 40 and I've spent more on my gaming habit in the last 5 years than I had in my all previous years. (I've been gaming since I was about 10-11) The biggest reason is, I've got more money to spend now than I did in my earlier years. (The lack of game stores and no internet probably helped contribute a little, but really I didn't have as much disposable income I do now.) I've bought 4th ed. & Pathfinder stuff.

Now if I could just have the same amount of time for gaming that I used to...

Now that I think about it, maybe a 35+ is just less likely to take the time to answer a survey

 

[Rechan]

I would ask myself how I could better serve the older crowd which I would calculate to have more money to spend.

The reason that 35+ do not buy books might have nothing to do with the books themselves, but instead might be that they don't have the money to spend, due to having more obligations.

Children, mortgages, health bills, etc etc. In such a situation, gaming books might be seen as decreasingly unimportant commodity.

Also there is the question of: "If we market/put content in the books to appeal to OLD gamers, will it turn off the YOUNGER gamers who buy way more of our books than the old gamers?" The company doesn't want to threaten the demographic that is giving them more money, and if appealing to Older gamers would do that, take a guess which they're going to do.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The Edition War (tm) even exists between myself and my best friend. He and I don't even play together at all any more.

Man, that is perhaps the saddest thing I have heard come out of this.

I'd be much more willing to abandon a given edition than to abandon gaming with friends.

 

[Imban]

I'd be much more willing to abandon a given edition than to abandon gaming with friends.

Sadly, I've always ended up having to abandon gaming with people when this happened - back when I was first into roleplaying, before I quit for about 4 years, my group went on one of those "renounce AD&D, play WoD, we're roleplayers-not-rollplayers" benders and I stopped wanting to play with them ever.

And well, the pre-release information of 4e apparently caused two of the people in my community to become so frustrated with 3e that they immediately declared, before 4e was even released, that they would never play 3e again. One of them was in my 3e game at the time and made good on such by immediately walking out.

 

[Drkfathr1]

The reason that 35+ do not buy books might have nothing to do with the books themselves, but instead might be that they don't have the money to spend, due to having more obligations.

Children, mortgages, health bills, etc etc. In such a situation, gaming books might be seen as decreasingly unimportant commodity.

Also there is the question of: "If we market/put content in the books to appeal to OLD gamers, will it turn off the YOUNGER gamers who buy way more of our books than the old gamers?" The company doesn't want to threaten the demographic that is giving them more money, and if appealing to Older gamers would do that, take a guess which they're going to do.

Methinks they should work on trying to find a way to support BOTH demographics.

Step 1: Target and capture younger audience
Step 2: Target and maintain current older audience
Step 3: Profit.

 

[La Bete]

my group went on one of those "renounce AD&D, play WoD, we're roleplayers-not-rollplayers" benders and I stopped wanting to play with them ever.

This is one of the reason why whenever "roll-playing" is used against D&D, it really gets my goat - didn't we get this when Vampire showed up, and we were shown what "true roleplaying" was?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This is one of the reason why whenever "roll-playing" is used against D&D, it really gets my goat - didn't we get this when Vampire showed up, and we were shown what "true roleplaying" was?

But did we learn from it? Apparantly not, we're still playing D&D.

 

[The_Gneech]

You do realize this thread was started by someone stating that 4E was a failure because there were no games for it at Dragoncon?

Um, no, he said that "the edition war" was still going on, not that 4E was a failure. The fact that this thread is so all over the map suggests that he is probably right, whether or not he looked under the right heading for 4E games at Dragon*Con.

As I mentioned earlier, I went there specifically looking for some "non-campaign" 4E to play and couldn't find it, whereas there was plenty of 1e and 3.x/d20 stuff going on. I think the belief that there's still plenty of acrimony about editions is a perfectly sound conclusion to draw from this state of affairs. In the days when "campaign" gaming was all 3.5, that didn't stop there from being plenty of 3.5 stuff happening in the "non-campaign" arena as well.

-The Gneech

 

[AllisterH]

As I mentioned earlier, I went there specifically looking for some "non-campaign" 4E to play and couldn't find it, whereas there was plenty of 1e and 3.x/d20 stuff going on. I think the belief that there's still plenty of acrimony about editions is a perfectly sound conclusion to draw from this state of affairs. In the days when "campaign" gaming was all 3.5, that didn't stop there from being plenty of 3.5 stuff happening in the "non-campaign" arena as well.

-The Gneech

Ah, but just as importantly, the RPGA has changed.

The RPGA from my perceptions seems more casual friendly, thus, the type of gamer who might've been frustrated with the more "hardcore" LG campaign might be more willing to try LFR in 4e.