Dragon Disciple - a viable option?

[Magic Slim]

Has anyone played Dragon Disciples? How was it? What was your build? What would be an effective build (if that is at all possible)?

To me, the PrC doesn't seem to offer much in terms of power (of course that's not all I'm interested in, but it's nice to hold your own in combat)...

Thanks in advance,

Slim

 

[bret]

The best builds I've seen using this PrC are building a Barbarian / Sorcerer or Fighter/Sorcerer and concentrating on the fighting. Although it is supposed to be a spellcasting PrC, it just doesn't keep up in spell power.

Power Attack + True Strike become your friend.

 

[apsuman]

I currently don't have a game right now, but I would really like to play a Sorcerer/DD. No levels of fighting class at all.

It strkes me as a really fun character to play. But by no means would he "keep up" with other characters of the same level.

A few spells in 3.5 help though. Enlarge actually makes you one size category larger so a medimum DD becomes large and would do more damage with his claw and bite attacks.

Also, there is a monster feat that allows natural attacks to count as though the monster were one size category larger.

Also, there is a monster feat, basically it is the flying version of spring attack, fly in, attack, and fly out.

g!

 

[FrankTrollman]

Dragon Disciples are lame.

You spend all those levels not getting BAB, and then you spend all those levels not getting spells.

You end up not having a high attack bonus or high level spells.

You get to the end of that class as a high level character who can't do anything except make near-epic Knowledge Arcana checks.

Dragon Disciple is cool, but amazingly underpowered.

-Frank

 

[kigmatzomat]

Has anyone played Dragon Disciples? How was it? What was your build? What would be an effective build (if that is at all possible)?
Slim

One of my players is starting a DD. IIRC, he's a human rogue 10/sorceror 2/DD1 right now. I'm going to use the 3.5 DD because it's a bit more coherent than the 3.0 one, not that it matters that much.

For his purposes, DD will boost his combat abilities. His BAB won't really be better or worse than as a pure rogue but the armor, stat & sensory buffs are nice and will up his normal damage output and HPs. Sure, sneak attack will drop a few dice but they're running into more and more unsneakable targets so the base damage increase is good. The few bonus spells he'll pick up will give him a bit more flexibility but not really more power. The d12s and the natural armor will increase his ability & willingness to be in melee combat.

It's definitely a flavor-rich class. There's power but it isn't exactly over the top. Personally, I like it much. It appeals to munchkins (Rar! I'm a half-dragon!) but doesn't really let you munch out. Personally, the half-dragon is a good class for melee-combat multiclassed sorcerors. Pure sorcerors of less than epic levels should probably forgoe it.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

As I said in another post, you'd be better off just taking the three levels in the Half-Dragon Template Class currently on Wizard's website.

 

[Uruk]

As I said in another post, you'd be better off just taking the three levels in the Half-Dragon Template Class currently on Wizard's website.

I've been comparing both for the last hour or so and I'm not sure the template is better than the Prestige Class. Let's compare a 17th level sorceror with the 1/2 Dragon template vs. a 10sorc/10dd.

At 20th level the template is going to have 17d4HD + 3d10HD since the bonus HP don't effect class HD. (avg 49hp)

The DD will have 10d4HD + 10d12HD (avg 80hp)

The template eeks out a couple more skill points since the Int. modifier probably comes in sooner.

The template will lose out on 1 feat.

The template won't have wings.

Template BAB = 8/3 Prestige BAB = 12/7/2

Template Saves = 5/5/10 Prestige Saves = 10/6/14

Template AC+4 Prestige AC+3

Template Darkvision Prestige Blindsense

Template 19 spells 8th max Prestige 7 spells 5th max

I'm looking into this for a player, but DD is looking better. I'm tempted to nerf some of its physical ability and add more spells and it might be ok. I'm still in the camp that the DD is going to be weaker than other party members as-is.

 

[DM2]

I'm not sure on which planet sorcerer 10/DD 10 is a good build.

Large size, physical stat boosts, blindsense...great for warriors, lousy to useless for sorcerers.

I'd much rather have the 7 extra spell levels with a half-dragon template, honestly, if I had to choose.

Or...just take 20 levels of sorcerer and cast shapechange when I want dragon goodness.

DM2

 

[Garboshnik]

Its not meant to be a spellcasting prc and if its treated as such its very weak. For your sorc1/barbarianx though its pretty good.

 

[Hardhead]

I've been comparing both for the last hour or so and I'm not sure the template is better than the Prestige Class. Let's compare a 17th level sorceror with the 1/2 Dragon template vs. a 10sorc/10dd.

At 20th level the template is going to have 17d4HD + 3d10HD since the bonus HP don't effect class HD. (avg 49hp)

The DD will have 10d4HD + 10d12HD (avg 80hp)

The template eeks out a couple more skill points since the Int. modifier probably comes in sooner.

The template will lose out on 1 feat.

The template won't have wings.

Template BAB = 8/3 Prestige BAB = 12/7/2

Template Saves = 5/5/10 Prestige Saves = 10/6/14

Template AC+4 Prestige AC+3

Template Darkvision Prestige Blindsense

Template 19 spells 8th max Prestige 7 spells 5th max

I'm looking into this for a player, but DD is looking better. I'm tempted to nerf some of its physical ability and add more spells and it might be ok. I'm still in the camp that the DD is going to be weaker than other party members as-is.

8th lvl spells, compared to 5th level spells. No contest! The template is definitly better.


Someone else said:

I'm not sure on which planet sorcerer 10/DD 10 is a good build.

Large size, physical stat boosts, blindsense...great for warriors, lousy to useless for sorcerers.

They no longer get large size in 3.5. Amazingly, they were actually nerfed.

Anyway, IMO, the best DD build is to go Fighter/Barb for the first four levels and use the Cosmopolitan feat to get the requisite Knowledge (Arcana) ranks. At fifth level, grab a lvl of sorc, and then go into DD. It's actually a pretty good PrC done like that.

- Z a c h