Dragon Roots Magazine DIDN'T sell the 4e Killed Gary shirts

[DM-Rocco]

I find it sad that there are gamers (in this thread, and on a thread on the same topic at RPGNet) who try to argue that this is somehow acceptable or at the least not worse than usual....

These guys wore this shirt, and walked the slogan through an exhibit hall filled with Gary's friends and colleagues.


What part of that do you not get as being a horribly tasteless thing to do?

What is worse is that Luke Gygax stopped by our booth so family of Gygax was in the house. I didn't bring it up to him but it wouldn't take a genus to figure out what he might have thought about them.

 

[CountPopeula]

I find it sad that there are gamers (in this thread, and on a thread on the same topic at RPGNet) who try to argue that this is somehow acceptable or at the least not worse than usual....

These guys wore this shirt, and walked the slogan through an exhibit hall filled with Gary's friends and colleagues.


What part of that do you not get as being a horribly tasteless thing to do?

Tasteless, rude, and offensive do not preclude something from being funny.

 

[Shroomy]

Tasteless, rude, and offensive do not preclude something from being funny.

True, but those t-shirts were hardly funny or clever.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

True, but those t-shirts were hardly funny or clever.

Shouldn't that comment be prefaced with "IMO" or "IMHO". Or are there now objective tests for "funny" or "clever"?

One may say the same about a certain group of cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed published in the European media last year. That is, opinions on such matters can differ. While it is appropriate that DM-Rocco distance his company from articles which are able to cause offence to some for good PR reasons, I don't think it appropriate that these forums become the venue for vigilante outrage, as exemplified by the link on the front page of ENWorld asking people to identify the alleged malefactors who produced the offending articles. I'm sure we have all caused offence to others at some time - and I would conjecture that those of us who hold strong opinions on things (which would be, I suspect, most ENWorld members) have done so deliberately from time to time. Given the glass houses in which we all live, I'd respectfully suggest we stop throwing stones.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[DM-Rocco]

Shouldn't that comment be prefaced with "IMO" or "IMHO". Or are there now objective tests for "funny" or "clever"?

One may say the same about a certain group of cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed published in the European media last year. That is, opinions on such matters can differ. While it is appropriate that DM-Rocco distance his company from articles which are able to cause offence to some for good PR reasons, I don't think it appropriate that these forums become the venue for vigilante outrage, as exemplified by the link on the front page of ENWorld asking people to identify the alleged malefactors who produced the offending articles. I'm sure we have all caused offence to others at some time - and I would conjecture that those of us who hold strong opinions on things (which would be, I suspect, most ENWorld members) have done so deliberately from time to time. Given the glass houses in which we all live, I'd respectfully suggest we stop throwing stones.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

Being one that doesn't always come across as intended in e-mails and posts (I'm referring to myself, not you) I would have to say that I can see why they put that on the front page of the ENWorld forums. I can also understand why people need to know. Everyone loves a good mystery. If for no other reason, I think that is, IMO, why people are getting worked up. That and the t-shirts are a mystery in and of themselves. The Mystery aside, this has an element of disrespect for the Gygax family and through that connection a shred of disrespect for all gamers in general. Given that, some people have decided that knowing who it is, is not enough. They also want to avoid any success to the company in question by avoiding contributions to that company in the form of purchased goods.

I understand the need to have closure and to make sure that such a thing doesn't go unanswered. I think you bring up a few valid points, but I think that the rest of the EWWorld has spoken and they want to know who it is so they can avoid giving that company further moneys or support. I, being the original target of this blood hunt, would caution against making claims that you, or I, can’t back up. However, if I say, went to a companies website and saw a blog boasting about the t-shirts they wore or actually saw them for sale, I would have no problem calling them out.

Personally, even if I had strong evidence I think I, in light of what has already happened to our company, would feel a little guilty about naming another as the culprit. I think that is why I am not googling, “4e killed Gary,” t-shirts trying to actively track them down or go through the list of vendors at GenCon and check out their websites. On some level I agree with you.

On the other hand, I think some expression of anger is not only in order but it is a good check and balance for the community as a whole. I remember when those cartoons came out last year. I also remember a lot of people saying it was no big deal. I also recall the outrage by the Muslim community. Without the outrage by that community, it would be setting a precedent that in the future such a cartoon would be appropriate. Without the EWNworld getting upset over the Gary shirts, it sets a precedent that it is okay to mock our founding father and make light of his death.

Um, I am losing my train of thought, and hopefully that came out better to you in print then it did in my head, but I hope you get the idea.

 

[billd91]

I find it sad that there are gamers (in this thread, and on a thread on the same topic at RPGNet) who try to argue that this is somehow acceptable or at the least not worse than usual....

These guys wore this shirt, and walked the slogan through an exhibit hall filled with Gary's friends and colleagues.


What part of that do you not get as being a horribly tasteless thing to do?

Meh. There are plenty of other tasteless and truly abominable things going on in this world to get too worked up about some yahoos using a dead celebrity to take a potshot at a game. I shook my head with reasonable disapproval when I heard about it and moved on.

 

[Hussar]

Bill91 - I'm not all that worked up about it. However, I do believe voting with my wallet. If I knew what company did this, I would certainly not buy anything from them.

I'm not advocating any sort of retribution or anything like that, but, I certainly think I have the right not to support a company that does things I actively disagree with.

Had Dragon Roots Magazine done this, I would certainly never buy their products, and would be sure to tell everyone I knew not to as well. ((NOTE, I KNOW YOU DIDN'T DO IT))

 

[Jack99]

Shouldn't that comment be prefaced with "IMO" or "IMHO". Or are there now objective tests for "funny" or "clever"?

One may say the same about a certain group of cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed published in the European media last year. That is, opinions on such matters can differ.

Those were satirical, made to prove a point regarding our freedom of speech. Problem was, the muslims didn't quite get the satire

I do not think those T-shirt were satire. Ergo, not the same thing, at all.

 

[questing gm]

From what I can tell, and it is a hard mystery to unravel after the fact, but I think someone was talking about us on one thread and then someone mentioned the 4e killed Gary shirts and assumed that we were apart of it since the thread began about us. From what I can tell, this is were it started and it spread quickly to several other sites. Which sucks, because it is very hard to clean up after everyone gets a chance to splatter the news wherever they want.

I did see some people walking around with those shirts and I did see the booth they sold them at and I can assure you that the shirts did not have our logo on them and we had nothing to do them.

I'm not trying to cause a big fuss over this but I have been following this up after reading this thread and a couple bloggers on this issue.

I would just like to ask if this is the thread, you were referring which started with the rumors?

 

[DM-Rocco]

I'm not trying to cause a big fuss over this but I have been following this up after reading this thread and a couple bloggers on this issue.

I would just like to ask if this is the thread, you were referring which started with the rumors?

Someone linked to that thread earlier. In that thread it was mentioned half way through, not in relation to us, that someone was selling those shirts with, "4e killed Gary." A few people miss read this and thought it actually said we did sell the shirts and proceeded to tell me thier displeasure in an e-mail. I didn't even know about the thread until I got home from GenCon since I did have access to the net all weekend. So I had a late start putting out fires.

So, that is where I think it started from the best I can tell. Oh, and as I said before, the original point of the thread was a misunderstanding and those original posters are now happy and on good terms with us. I only feel I have to mention that so as not to open another can of worms.