Dragon Roots Magazine DIDN'T sell the 4e Killed Gary shirts

[Particle_Man]

From what I can glean from the link I posted earlier in this thread, it is possible that the seller/buyers of the t-shirts in question were not intending to mock Gary. It is possible that their "nerd rage" vs. 4e was strong enough that they used Gary's name (without, of course, getting permission from his estate) in their misguided edition war. Still tacky, thoughtless and disrespectful, mind you, but I bet if you asked some of them, they might even have thought that they were *defending* Gary.

 

[Set]

From what I can glean from the link I posted earlier in this thread, it is possible that the seller/buyers of the t-shirts in question were not intending to mock Gary. It is possible that their "nerd rage" vs. 4e was strong enough that they used Gary's name (without, of course, getting permission from his estate) in their misguided edition war. Still tacky, thoughtless and disrespectful, mind you, but I bet if you asked some of them, they might even have thought that they were *defending* Gary.

Seemed terribly obvious to me, but this thread made it to page three before you piped up with a similar view. 4E was the entity that got majorly slammed, by saying that it killed the closest thing the gaming community has to a founding father.

Horribly tacky, nonetheless.

 

[CountPopeula]

I have to chime in here.

Dr. Martin Luther King or JFK or Pope John Paul II or Ronald Reagan were not personal friends, they were not family or even co-workers. Are you saying that because of this I had no right to feel greif when Pope John Paul II or Ronald Reagan passed away? Is it okay that people mock or make fun of JFK or Mr. Martin Luther King? My point isn't that it is America and that while here people have freedom of speech and CAN do what they did. My point isn't that people will eventually make light of certain personallities. My point is that you don't have to be a family memeber, a co-worker or a personal friend to feel empathy for a man who changed the lives of many.

I won't get started on my speech about how the world, and not just the gaming world, would be different without him. However, to say that because we didn't know him personally we therefore shouldn't be outraged, well, for lack of a better word, that just seems foolish.

You know, I make fun of Ronald Reagan all the time. I literally danced a jig when he died. Just because he's dead doesn't mean I'm going to pretend I liked him, and it certainly doesn't mean he's suddenly going to stop being the butt of my jokes.

So Gary Gygax. I didn't know him, but he died about 10 days before my dad. I made similar jokes about my dad's passing related to various things he would have disapproved of long before Gencon. I still have a tendency to say "Wow, if dad was still alive, this would have killed him."

The t-shirts. I didn't go to Gencon. I like 4th edition more than any previous edition. But I think they're funny. And I think since so many people have their hackles up about them, selling them right now would probably be a profitable idea.

 

[DM-Rocco]

You know, I make fun of Ronald Reagan all the time. I literally danced a jig when he died. Just because he's dead doesn't mean I'm going to pretend I liked him, and it certainly doesn't mean he's suddenly going to stop being the butt of my jokes.

So Gary Gygax. I didn't know him, but he died about 10 days before my dad. I made similar jokes about my dad's passing related to various things he would have disapproved of long before Gencon. I still have a tendency to say "Wow, if dad was still alive, this would have killed him."

The t-shirts. I didn't go to Gencon. I like 4th edition more than any previous edition. But I think they're funny. And I think since so many people have their hackles up about them, selling them right now would probably be a profitable idea.

You can dance a jig all you want, I don't care. But it is rude to do it during his funeral. Tell all the Gary jokes you want behind our backs, but don't express those feeling in a room full of friends, family, co-workers and admirers. I bet you wouldn't dance a jig against Regean during a national republican convention. Or if you did, then sad to say, you just don't get it.

 

[Crothian]

This sums up my feelings here. I am more bothered by the witch hunt attitude that seems to be going on here than what was on the shirts. Some folks are legitimately expressing just their displeasure while others seeming want to take it to another level, either by censorship or even violence.

Since all the people here can do is talk about violence and talk about censorship shouldn't you also defend their right to say such things?

I didn't see the shirts. If I had I probably would have asked the guys about it expressed my displeasure with the shirts by telling them I think it is in bad taste. I also have no problems with people voicing their disapproval or approval on the net. As long as it is just talk it is fine.

 

[CountPopeula]

You can dance a jig all you want, I don't care. But it is rude to do it during his funeral. Tell all the Gary jokes you want behind our backs, but don't express those feeling in a room full of friends, family, co-workers and admirers. I bet you wouldn't dance a jig against Regean during a national republican convention. Or if you did, then sad to say, you just don't get it.

I most certainly would, given the chance. And that's not the same thing, you won't find any of Reagan's family at a republican convention.

To be honest, I didn't want to bring it up, since I wasn't there, but from what I heard, your booth sounds far more offensive to me than these t-shirts. Using someone's death to make a statement about something you don't like and feel they wouldn't like is one thing. I don't find it any more offensive than saying "so and so would be rolling over in their grave at this." But setting up a booth to sell merchandise with their face and seemingly nothing else, using a funeral to draw people to your booth, selling t-shirts and magazines and doing everything you can to put your brand name next to a dead man's face offends me. And just because it's sentimental and not shocking doesn't make it any better.

But that's your choice, you don't think it's wrong to do, and it's your right. The 4e Killed Gary shirts play to the same audience, they just use shock over sentiment.

 

[Ranger REG]

I most certainly would, given the chance. And that's not the same thing, you won't find any of Reagan's family at a republican convention.

To be honest, I didn't want to bring it up, since I wasn't there, but from what I heard, your booth sounds far more offensive to me than these t-shirts. Using someone's death to make a statement about something you don't like and feel they wouldn't like is one thing. I don't find it any more offensive than saying "so and so would be rolling over in their grave at this." But setting up a booth to sell merchandise with their face and seemingly nothing else, using a funeral to draw people to your booth, selling t-shirts and magazines and doing everything you can to put your brand name next to a dead man's face offends me. And just because it's sentimental and not shocking doesn't make it any better.

But that's your choice, you don't think it's wrong to do, and it's your right. The 4e Killed Gary shirts play to the same audience, they just use shock over sentiment.

*looks at CountPopeula, shakes his head in the most fatherly disappointment fashion, and moves on*

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Since all the people here can do is talk about violence and talk about censorship shouldn't you also defend their right to say such things?

Your right. I fully support your right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater. Let me know how it goes.

 

[Kzach]

Here's another example of someone with good sense. A classic quote from an operator in the #enworld chatroom:

11:23 <MinceR> i think they'll use the rotation of the body of Gary Gygax in his grave to enter the energy market

Ah, the epitome of taste and decorum. Glad he's representing ENW.

 

[RefinedBean]

So.

Would the issue be resolved if we found one of these people and asked them, "So, why'd you do that? What did you gain? What did you set out to prove?"

No, of course not. In all seriousness, discomfort is a personal emotion, and is never FORCED upon oneself by others. People don't make you cringe when something sick/disgusting/disrespectful is presented: that's a reaction that, although elicited, still comes from you.

This isn't blaming the victim, by the by. This is merely pointing out the fact that, whether it's pictures of Mohammed or a shirt that makes light of Gary Gygax's death, these events are defined more by how people have reacted then how the material is presented.

And if that was the intent of the shirts, well...I doubt it. But you really can't blame people who wear such things any more than you can blame people for making a big hullabaloo about it.

(Note: Not blaming DM_Rocco in the slightest either, it's good business and good kharma to clear one's name of controversy)