Dragonborn and Teifling for PF

[Palocles]

Hi guys. I'm just going to get straight to business with my first post. Intros can wait.

So i decided to go with Pathfinder but after i had already read 4E and there are several things i do like about 4th, particularly the higher level of fantasticalness of the Dragonborn and Teifling races instead of Gnomes and Half Orcs.

So, using the guide made by Golden and Posted on the GiantITP forums here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183223

So here is what i've come up with with basically a straight conversion. Do they look balanced with the existing PF races? As 4E doesn't give a -2 racial modifier on any stats i'd like feedback on which is most appropriate to use.​

Dragonborn:​

[FONT=MentorStd-BoldItalic, cursive]Proud, honorable warriors, [/FONT][FONT=MentorStd-BoldItalic, cursive]born from the blood of an ancient dragon god.[/FONT]​

Average Height: 6'2” - 6'8”
Average Weight: 220 – 320lbs.​

Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Charisma, -2 Dexterity(?) (non human, 0 points)
Size Category: Medium (0)
Movement Speed: 30' (0)
Vision: Normal (0)​

Languages: Draconic, Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 History, +2 Intinidate (2)
Dragonborn Fury: You gain +1 to hit rolls when you are below half HP. (2)​

Dragons Breath: Three + Con bonus times per day (but only once per encounter) you can make a Dragons Breath attack as detailed below. (6)
Standard Action:
Range: 15' Dia Ball, adjacent to player of either: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning or Poison*
Damage: 1D6 + con mod.
Targets: All creatures within area, Reflex save vs. DC to avoid. DC equals 10 plus half level (round down) and either* Str, Con or Dex bonus.
*Both chosen during character creation.
Level based Racial Feats to buff up breath attack available.​

***

Teifling:​

[FONT=MentorStd-BoldItalic, cursive]Heirs of a shattered empire who live in the shadows and do not fear the dark.[/FONT]​

Average Height: 5'6” - 6' 2”
Average Weight: 140 – 230lbs.​

Ability Scores: +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom(or STR or CON?) (non human, 0 points)
Size Category: Medium (0)
Movement Speed: 30' (0)
Vision: Low Light Vision (1)​

Languages: Common, choice of one other
Skill Bonuses: +2 Bluff, +2 Stealth (2)
Bloodhunt: You gain a +1 racial bonus to attack rolls against enemies below half HP. (2)
Fire Resistance: You gain a +2 bonus to saving throws vs fire attacks. (1)​

Infernal Wrath: Three + Cha bonus times per day (but only once per encounter) you can use Infernal Wrath to gain a +1 power bonus on your attack roll against an enemy you hit since your last turn. If the attack hits and does damage you can add your Cha bonus to the damage too. (4)

***​

Oh yeah, i also wasn't too sure whether the two Blooded abilities were worth more or the same as Hatred. They apply too all enemies, unlike Hatred but also don't function continuously. Hatred is worth one point, i've made these worth two.​

Thanks chaps.​

 

[Shemeska]

FYI, tieflings are already in Pathfinder, though they more closely resemble the tieflings from 2e and 3.x D&D (with wider variety in appearance and fiendish lineage) than the 4e version.

Tieflings are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial HD. They have the following racial traits.

+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma: Tieflings are quick in body and mind, but are inherently strange.

Darkvision: Tieflings see in the dark up to 60 feet.

Skilled: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Stealth checks.

Spell-Like Ability: Tieflings can use darkness once per day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability equals the tiefling's class level.

Fiendish Resistance: Tieflings have cold resistance 5, electricity resistance 5, and fire resistance 5.

Fiendish Sorcery: Tiefling sorcerers with the Abyssal or Infernal bloodline treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer class abilities.

Languages: Tieflings begin play speaking Common and either Abyssal or Infernal. Tieflings with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Abyssal, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Infernal, and Orc.

They also receive quite a bit of attention in "Blood of Fiends" a player companion book on tieflings (by Colin McComb of 2e Planescape fame), and a section in the recent Advanced Race Guide (I worked on the tiefling section).

 

[Palocles]

Yeah, i forgot about that. I meant to re-read the entry in the Bestiary before i made the conversion but forgot.

I think i like the feeling created by the 4E version more than the PF Bestiary one though...

With +Int, +Dex and -Cha they come across as unfriendly elves while they are quite unusual with +Int, +Cha and -whatever.

I'll take another look at their entry anyway.

 

[Wycen]

Mechanically and maybe flavor-wise as well, your dragon-born is too "4E -ish".

You have a bloodied condition, with the serial number filed off.

The breath weapon uses a stat mod instead of flat or level based adjustment.

Also, considering the variety of parentage possible, dragon-born would seem likely to be a Pathfinder race that gets +2 to a stat of their choice. Why a bonus to CHA? In this case maybe because you consider their force of personality. But what about the fact they look weirder than half-orcs, orcs, or whatever? Wouldn't green/red/black/blue/white dragon-born instill fear which would be a closer match for a CHA penalty?

Obviously you can solve that by writing them into the core, which I suspect you've done in your own game already.

Speaking of core, I'm not sure about the races in the new Advanced Races Guide, but the core races don't have anything like a built in lethal attack. Either the dragon-born could choose a feat to gain a breath weapon or else you have to find someway to balance that by dumping other things like skill bonuses or something.

Just my two cents. I personally want to play a warforged in a non-Eberron campaign but of course that has 3E roots.

 

[Palocles]

The Dragonborn (and the Teifling too really) looks 4th-ish because i just transferred them straight form the 4E rules.

I didn't really like that they both had abilities linked to Bloodied or that the Dragonborn has such a significant natural attack but it was a straight port.

Maybe i'll just use the Teifling from the Bestiary and lose the Dragonborn for now.