Dragonsborn Breath Weapon Issue

[Devin Cole]

Ok so here is the set up. My players were given a writ by the Lord Mayor to take useful items from the general store in town to help with their raid of the Kobold Lair. The Dragonborn PC asked me if he could buy empty flasks made of glass. I said sure.

Now the players are inside the lair and have just completed the first encounter. The Dragonborn player informs me that he would like to now use his encounter power dragonborn breath weapon to fill the "Jars" with acid.

Ill be honest i have no issue with him doing this, i ruled that he could fill one jar at the time. I will rule that when he uses it it acts like an improvised weapon and does spash damage to any creature in adjacent squares.

My question is this. How long would the acid from his breath weapon remain dangerous and for how long would the stoppers on the glass jar keep the acid within from leaking out and damaging the pc or his gear?

 

[Obrysii]

Going from a purely biological perspective, the acid would likely either break down very quickly or remain for a while. As the breath is (presumably) not one that remains around long after it has been spat, I assume it breaks down quickly. In a glass jar with a glass stopper, I'd say he'd have a minute before it breaks down due to exposure to light / air / whatever.

And that said, a glass jar with a glass stopper is highly resistant to acid. A traditional stopper? I'm not sure.

 

[generalhenry]

I'd say acid breath lasts about as long as fire breath does.


Besides it's breath, as in a diffuse gas. Unless he has some way of concentrating it.

 

[Skyscraper]

I don't think i'd allow the acid to actually remain in the jar. I also see the dragon breath as a very diffuse gas, not a pool of liquid jetting out of the creature's mouth.

Even if you were to allow the acid to remain in the flask, you'd probably need a very specific flask for the task. With a specific stopper.

I'd go with something like: listen, this isn't the intent of the power, your breath doesn't hold in liquid form, you're not an acid-generator and there are no sweatshops in my world where dragonborn are underpaid to create acid. There is simply no permanent creations of matter from nothing.

Sky

 

[Larrin]

I would definitely rule against doing this and i can think of many ways to explain why:

Game mechanics reasons:
1)the range of the breath is a 3x3 square, with NO way to make this smaller, he can't concentrate it enough to stick any meaningful amount in the bottle. congratulations you have a bottle with a thin gas in it, it deals (1d6+con divided by 64) damage, round down, minimum 0.

2) its an attack, breathing on the bottle attacks the bottle. it either breaks or doesn't but it isn't filled

3)the rules don't state there is any 'actual' acid, therefore there mechanically isn't (pretty weak argument, to be honest)

fluffy reasons:
1) none of the other breaths leave residue, neither does acid, think of it as an acidic fire that dies away in a few secounds or a spray that reacts with air and is instantly activated but then decays in a few secounds. In the bottle it would flare up, and then become inert spittle in a rounds worth of time.

2) Dragon breath is magic, you can't hold magic in a bottle...unless you have the brew potion ritual.

3)if this worked, we'd all be doing it, and you could buy it in a store

4)trying to only fill a bottle with your breath will cause the acid to build up in your own mouth, damaging you instead.


some of these arguments are better than others, but at least one of those should hold enough water.

 

[Fkewl]

Kewl idea from the player, so as DM, i'd go with it.

Also, they just released Ecology of the Dragonborn with the "Hurl Dragonbreath" Feat (look it up, it's nice)
Benefit: explodes in a burst 2 with a range of 10 squares

but for the bottle of Acid

at creation : 1 per encounter if dragonbreath was not used, arcana or Con challenge DC 20 (25?)


creates : Bottle of Acid DB (improvised weap), Range 5+str base modifier, burst 1, atk Dex vs Reflex or Fort, 1d6 damage , ongoing damage = Con modifier, save ends

You can add : "If bottle of Acid DB is not used in the next encounter, it does no damage when next used."


So this limits the creation and usage of said bottle

but add or remove restrictions depending on how you and your group feels about it

 

[inati]

Very interesting idea. The question you have to ask yourself is though, when using the Dragonbreath racial power, does the power leave behind a residue that is still dangerous? Does the acid he breathe still cause ongoing damage to the target? If a creature were to step into the area that he breathed on, would it cause their feet to burn? Well, we know it doesn't, so it implies that the acid either evaporates quickly, or becomes inert soon after being expelled. Because of this, I don't think a Dragonborn can keep their acid breath in glass jars.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I wouldn't allow it, because you'd be making a rod for your own back when he later decides to produce acid factories and so forth.

I'd rule that the acid gas he produces is volatile and evaporates into stable compounds upon leaving his body. That's why the acid breath doesn't have an 'ongoing acid damage' component if additional justification is needed.

That's my recommendation.

Cheers

 

[Hella_Tellah]

It's kind of a fun idea, so you should let him do it, but it has to be about on par with a basic attack, or it'll get out of hand. Make it an option, but not an obvious option. Something like:

Dragonbreath Flask
At-will * Acid, Alchemy
Standard Action Area Burst 1 within 5 squares
Attack Dex vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d4 + CON acid damage on all targets.

That way it does less damage than the normal breath, but it has the benefit of range, and he can carry around as many as he likes. You should also make the flasks cost a bit of cash--10g or so--to make the player think through how many he'll want. Clearly he wants to have an element of planned resource management in his game (something I find slightly lacking in this edition), and you should give it to him.

Also, try to integrate your player's idea into the game world. Maybe there are specific flasks required to do this. Kryzzik the Venomfanged, a Dragonborn alchemist, is the head of a merchant company, and enforces a monopoly on all Kryzzik (TM) Flasks. Only licensed Kryzzik (TM) dealers can sell Kryzzik (TM) Flasks. For 75g, you can buy a randomized pack of 5 Kryzzik (TM) flasks, with one special rare flask in every pack!

 

[theNater]

My question is this. How long would the acid from his breath weapon remain dangerous and for how long would the stoppers on the glass jar keep the acid within from leaking out and damaging the pc or his gear?

How long it remains dangerous depends on what causes it to break down and cease being dangerous. There's three likely candidates: air, light, and heat.

Air: depends on how much air gets into the bottle. Assuming the bottle is nearly full, it'll be a slow and steady process that will speed up significantly if the acid is sloshed around. I'd say two days, with any encounters or other events including vigorous motion shaving off 4 hours.

Light: depends on storage. If the bottle is kept at the bottom of a pack, where it won't be exposed to light even during times the pack is mostly emptied for the camping gear, it could last virtually forever. However, if it's kept at the top of the pack or inside clothing, it's going to get some light fairly frequently, and will probably break down within 3 hours or so. And if it's kept exposed to light sources, as if worn on a belt or something, it's unlikely to last more than 15 minutes.

Heat: also depends on storage. If held close to the body, about 15 minutes, while at the back of the pack would give it up to 2 hours. Of course, if the character gets caught in a burst or blast causing fire damage, all the carried acid will be rendered inactive immediately.

The useful duration of the stopper depends on what it's made of. Cork would likely be the most common stopper material available, but the acid would go through it in next to no time, so it really wouldn't be useful. Rubber stoppers would last a little longer, probably up to 5 or 6 weeks if the bottles were carefully kept upright and stationary. Under adventuring conditions, however, I wouldn't expect them to last more than a week, even less if the bottles somehow got turned upside down and stayed that way. Glass stoppers would be best for durability, but to make a glass stopper that won't just fall out when the bottle is turned upside down requires specialized skills and/or equipment, so such bottles would probably be very expensive.