D&D 5E Dropping to 0 HP - House Rule Variant

[Steampunkette]

That's also death spirally.

As to the "Death Spiral"... I don't think it really causes one. I think leaving a character unconscious on the battlefield leads to death-spirals because that character can no longer contribute to the fight, and requires other characters to give up their ability to fight effectively to try and drag him out of there in the retreat.

Just make a note that exhaustion doesn't apply disadvantage to Death Saving Throws and you're golden.

I'll also note that a Death Spiral typically happens -before- you hit 0hp in most games. If your characters are hitting 0hp often enough in a single fight that this idea would create a Death Spiral, methinks the issue is more with your encounter design than the consequences of getting knocked down.

 

[toucanbuzz]

When a character is reduced to 0 hit points:​

Lose concentration Gain a level of lesser exhaustion Take 1 point of Vitality damage Make a Concentration save to become staggered. Otherwise, unconscious. You can voluntarily fail this save.

Staggered Condition​

Can take either an action or bonus action, not both Cannot take reactions Maximum speed is 5’ Ends if you have at least 1 hit point

Damage when at 0 hit points:​

If already staggered, make a Concentration save or become unconscious. Damage goes to Vitality. At 0 Vitality, dead.

Lesser exhaustion: acts as a level of exhaustion and stacks with exhaustion. One lesser exhaustion can be removed by a short rest or lesser restoration. Anything that removes normal exhaustion (long rest, greater restoration, potion of vitality) removes all lesser exhaustion.

Vitality: equal to your Starting Hit Points.

Healing Vitality: 1 per long rest. If already at full hit points, every 10 points of healing heals 1 point. Regeneration always heals at least 1 point.

DM Notes: use the exhaustion mechanic more, which provides its own set of escalating disabilities. Disadvantage on all d20 rolls doesn’t occur until 3 levels of exhaustion are accumulated. To avoid a death spiral and discourage excessive long rests, lesser exhaustion easier to remove. Removes the arbitrary “3 strikes and you’re out” (why 3? 100 points of damage has same effect as 1 point of damage, no sense) with the exhaustion table. Encourages use of the short rest, which many classes rely upon.
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This is what we use after much debate into the 0hp damage soak, 3 death save arbitrariness, and so on. Tons of pages devoted to that, not rehashing here. Vitality reflects the amount of damage the body can actually take, which isn't much, whereas HP is the ability to avoid taking actual damage and sheer luck. Once at 0, a single giant's club can (and should) be a death sentence, as no human would survive it (or a dragon's fire, etc).

Note: the unconscious mechanic is pretty much a death sentence for most as D&D combats tend to rarely last past the 10 round point. Raise dead is already a 1 hour casting time, so unconscious is pretty moot as it's unlikely someone would be in combat. Revivify would fit, but it has a hefty penalty already in that 1 hp characters in combat are usually in big trouble.

 

[FrogReaver]

As to the "Death Spiral"... I don't think it really causes one. I think leaving a character unconscious on the battlefield leads to death-spirals because that character can no longer contribute to the fight, and requires other characters to give up their ability to fight effectively to try and drag him out of there in the retreat.

I already responded that the proposed mechanic of unconscious PC on the battlefield leads to death spirals. That fact doesn't insulate your proposed mechanic from criticism that it also leads to them.

 

[Steampunkette]

I already responded that the proposed mechanic of unconscious PC on the battlefield leads to death spirals. That fact doesn't insulate your proposed mechanic from criticism that it also leads to them.

Death Spirals in games involve taking penalties before you hit 0hp that lead you to rapidly proceeding down the path to being downed/killed.

Gaining exhaustion -after- being downed isn't a Death Spiral. You already dropped.

It's a penalty for dropping that applies to your party, sure. But it's not the party-death-spiral that is unconsciousness for extended periods of time when downed.

I'm curious as to your particular definition of death spiral. 'Cause your suggestion as presented completely removes the danger of hitting 0hp altogether, keeping the player fully capable of fighting at 0hp indefinitely (so long as they don't fail saves) and only applies a penalty to the character -after- the combat.

So far it appears to be "Anything that impinges on the character, whatsoever"

"I just struck you while you had 0hp with a Greatsword for 20 points of damage. WHY WON'T YOU DIE?!"

"I've got a -really- good Con Save/Lucky Dice!"

 

[FrogReaver]

Death Spirals in games involve taking penalties before you hit 0hp that lead you to rapidly proceeding down the path to being downed/killed.

Gaining exhaustion -after- being downed isn't a Death Spiral. You already dropped.

In the past 0 hp meant dead. If that was the case here then this would be true. But 0 hp doesn't mean dead and so something happening at 0 hp can still be part of a death spiral. We call it a death spiral, not a drop spiral after all.

 

[overgeeked]

But that can lead to a rather massive death spiral type effect. Which is something that the OP wanted to avoid.

That's also death spirally.

Good. Combat should be deadly. It shouldn’t be video gamey nor perpetual whack-a-mole healing. I’d rather it be a death spiral the the PCs actively try to avoid.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm curious as to your particular definition of death spiral. 'Cause your suggestion as presented completely removes the danger of hitting 0hp altogether, keeping the player fully capable of fighting at 0hp indefinitely (so long as they don't fail saves) and only applies a penalty to the character -after- the combat.

Yes. Applying the penalty after combat is the key to avoiding the death spiral.

There's still alot of danger in staying up at 0 hp in combat. 3 failed death saves still kills you - and since you are still standing there's no reason for the enemies not to keep attacking you. Small healing also doesn't prevent another death save from occurring because even if you drop to 0 again after being healed from 0 with healing word you still make the death save. I'd argue it's actually quite a bit deadlier in practice than standard 5e due to these factors.

 

[FrogReaver]

Good. Combat should be deadly. It shouldn’t be video gamey nor perpetual whack-a-mole healing. I’d rather it be a death spiral the the PCs actively try to avoid.

Deadly isn't the same as death spirally. You can avoid whack-a-mole without causing a death spiral.

 

[Steampunkette]

In the past 0 hp meant dead. If that was the case here then this would be true. But 0 hp doesn't mean dead and so something happening at 0 hp can still be part of a death spiral. We call it a death spiral, not a drop spiral after all.

If that is your sincere position then, yeah. EVERYTHING is Death Spirally if it does anything whatsoever to impact a player character in a manner that reduces their effectiveness rather than just their HP.

Bestow Curse is a Death Spiral spell.

Darkness is a Death Spiral spell.

Rain and Weather Effects are Death Spirally if they apply disadvantage to attacks.

This definition is so broad and vague as to be essentially meaningless, in my opinion. Enjoy your game how you like it. I'll still suggest that getting to 0hp have some kind of actual meaning both narratively and in game terms and presume that the OP has a somewhat reasonable definition of the term "Death Spiral"

 

[overgeeked]

Deadly isn't the same as death spirally. You can avoid whack-a-mole without causing a death spiral.

As the poster above pointed out, you keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

And as pointed out below, your definition of the phrase is so broad as to be meaningless.

If that is your sincere position then, yeah. EVERYTHING is Death Spirally if it does anything whatsoever to impact a player character in a manner that reduces their effectiveness rather than just their HP.

Bestow Curse is a Death Spiral spell.

Darkness is a Death Spiral spell.

Rain and Weather Effects are Death Spirally if they apply disadvantage to attacks.

This definition is so broad and vague as to be essentially meaningless, in my opinion. Enjoy your game how you like it. I'll still suggest that getting to 0hp have some kind of actual meaning both narratively and in game terms and presume that the OP has a somewhat reasonable definition of the term "Death Spiral"