Druid incapacitating spells?

[mostholy2]

Having never played a Druid character before, I was curious to put one together. I assumed that being primarily a spell caster that having a really high wisdom was very important (as it would increase the DC check on saves against the spells). I was surprised to find that the Druid spell list really doesn't have that many spells that can incapacitate or directly affect opponents that would require save checks (outside of damage spells), particularly at the lower levels (spell lvls 1-4).

That being said, I feel that the Druid does not gain as much benefit as say a Wizard, Sorc, Bard, or Cleric with appropriately high main attributes, as there is at least one incapacitating spell per lvl that would require opponents to save or be out of the combat for a few rounds.

I was just curious if others had the same impression of Druid's spell list. Also if you wouldn't rather just spend your bonus attribute points to improve on the Druid's fighting abilities (or wildshaping skills. Are there attributes that add to Druid's wildshaping?)

 

[moritheil]

Having never played a Druid character before, I was curious to put one together. I assumed that being primarily a spell caster that having a really high wisdom was very important (as it would increase the DC check on saves against the spells). I was surprised to find that the Druid spell list really doesn't have that many spells that can incapacitate or directly affect opponents that would require save checks (outside of damage spells), particularly at the lower levels (spell lvls 1-4).

That being said, I feel that the Druid does not gain as much benefit as say a Wizard, Sorc, Bard, or Cleric with appropriately high main attributes, as there is at least one incapacitating spell per lvl that would require opponents to save or be out of the combat for a few rounds.

I was just curious if others had the same impression of Druid's spell list. Also if you wouldn't rather just spend your bonus attribute points to improve on the Druid's fighting abilities (or wildshaping skills. Are there attributes that add to Druid's wildshaping?)

Get more spells and better saves. Wildshape into something with the "fighting attributes" i.e. physical attributes you want. Maul stray opponents while entangling the bulk of your enemies and summoning an air elemental just over their heads.

Entangle does not incapacitate, but it's pretty brutal in terms of hampering effectiveness. See also Briar Web, and Stone Spikes (or is it Spiked Stones?). Oh, and don't forget heat metal/chill metal.

Druids have plenty of ways to mess with opponents.

 

[mostholy2]

1st lvl Entangle is the only thing close to hindering opponents (and only hindering)

Wiz/sorc sleep, colorspray, reduce person, charm person
Bard's tasha's hideous laughter, sleep
Cleric command

2nd lvl Druid has no real spells dependent on opponent's saves.
Wiz/sorc Hideous laughter, glitterdust, web, blind/deaf, scare, ghoul touch
Cleric Hold person
Bard blind/deaf, hold person, scare

3rd lvl Druid has Call lightning or spike growth
Wiz/sorc hold person, fb, lb, stinking cloud, deep slumber, ray of exhaustion
Cleric Blind/deaf, curse
Bard charm monster, confusion, fear, slow


4th lvl Druid has Spike stones and flame strike
Wiz sorc charm monster, geas, confusion, despair, phantasmal killer, curse, fear
Bard dominate person, hold monster,

It just seems to me that a Wiz, Sorc, and Bard have spells that are much more save dependent than Druid and gain much more for having higher DC for saves on their spells than druids do.

 

[Whimsical]

Druids can cast Summon Nature's Ally, then have what he summons grapple opponents. Give that a try.

 

[mostholy2]

I'm not arguing that Druid is not as good as other classes, but they don't seem to get as much benefit for having really high WIS as other classes do because their spells don't generally require save checks to resist the effects of the spells.

Summon Nat's ally is great, but has nothing to do with opponent's saves.

 

[Whimsical]

Well, this is working fine for my Sprit Shaman (from Complete Divine) who casts druid spells, but uses WIS for preparation, and CHA for saves. Having an unexpectional CHA is not hurting my character's spellcasting, and I'm cool with that.

 

[mikebr99]

I'm not arguing that Druid is not as good as other classes, but they don't seem to get as much benefit for having really high WIS as other classes do because their spells don't generally require save checks to resist the effects of the spells.

Summon Nat's ally is great, but has nothing to do with opponent's saves.

Well... they don't really need high physical stats... so why not buy a high WIS, and get a lot of spells?


Mike

 

[werk]

Yeah, I'll agree with that.

The druid works differently than other casters in that the primary casting stat (WIS) isn't as important except for determining:
max spell level he can cast
bonus spells
DC of the spell
will saves
skills that depend on WIS like heal, listen, spot, sense motive...

WIS is pretty important for a druid I would think, but only if you cast spells.

 

[thompgc]

2nd level has flaming sphere
Which w/save for no damage is really nice to have a high DC on

 

[mostholy2]

werk: Were you trying to make your post sarcastic? All the effects of WIS that you've outlined are true for every classes' primary stats. And, of course, Druids are going to cast spells.

I'm only trying to point out that their spell selection is such that the DC of their spells is not as important as for other classes. They therefore don't get as much benefit from having high primary stat as other caster classes.