Druid Wild Shape

[Regicide]

PCs and monsters work differently. In this case, these are PC powers that aren't weapon based; without the proficiency bonus, the usual case is to target a defense other than AC.

Does a plate mail wearing druid who switches to beastform still clank when they walk and suffer non-proficiency penalties?

 

[Akaiku]

Nowhere (I can find) does it say you can use only Beast Form powers while in beast form, and the fact it explicitly rules out some powers implies that in general everything is allowed (the exception proving the rule and all).

Page 84, wild shape ability, first paragraph last line.
"While you are in beast form, you can't use attack, utility, or feat power that lack the beast form keyword, although you can sustain such powers."

Side note, wild shape is a feat power, correct? If you muliticlass? It also lacks the beast keyword. Does this mean that RAW you can't un-wildshape ever?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Even for regular druids you can almost see Wild Shape as a kind of a disadvantage really. It just means your powers are segregated into two groups which don't entirely overlap. When using it as a MC Druid the beast abilities are just too limited to be really worth it at all. If you were to MCPP or something, use dilletante, and/or Versatile Master (lol) then MAYBE you can do some decent stuff, but it hardly makes sense. Better to MC into something that doesn't have the awkward power segregation.

Likewise it is a bit hard to see very many druids using MC into something else, since it basically just detracts from the Wild Shape, which frankly you might as well concentrate on since it is better to have as many powers in one form as you can. Perhaps a Druid that doesn't use Wild Shape much might MC out, but there again it seems like you just might as well be something else in that case.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Actually, I happen to think both "halves" of druid powers work very well together.

They all use the same implement, and the same stats, offensively and defensively.
And, there's some synergy .. savage rend, for instance, is awesome as a follow up power.

Say you open with Storm Spike, it's not a bad plan to wild shape and move up into melee.
I mean, they can shift or attack you and get hit for extra lightning damage ... or try to get away and provoke a savage rend ... which you can use to slide 'em next to an ally for even more annoyance.

When everyone's packed tight, wild shape (and get that free shift), drop a wall of thorns strategically, then move around.
Next turn, why ... how about a bit of this here storm spike, wild shape, flanking action?
Or just savage rend someone into the wall?

 

[srn]

Page 84, wild shape ability, first paragraph last line.
"While you are in beast form, you can't use attack, utility, or feat power that lack the beast form keyword, although you can sustain such powers."

Side note, wild shape is a feat power, correct? If you muliticlass? It also lacks the beast keyword. Does this mean that RAW you can't un-wildshape ever?

I must have read that 3 times at least without it sinking in.

Back on the original question, I think I'd allow an unarmed attack in wild shape as a standard attack, simply because it's not unbalancing in any way I can see.

 

[NorthSaber]

Page 84, wild shape ability, first paragraph last line.
"While you are in beast form, you can't use attack, utility, or feat power that lack the beast form keyword, although you can sustain such powers."

Side note, wild shape is a feat power, correct? If you muliticlass? It also lacks the beast keyword. Does this mean that RAW you can't un-wildshape ever?

Wild Shape is a feature power, even if you acquire it through a feat, as far as I can tell.

It would've been funny though.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Actually, I happen to think both "halves" of druid powers work very well together.

They all use the same implement, and the same stats, offensively and defensively.
And, there's some synergy .. savage rend, for instance, is awesome as a follow up power.

Say you open with Storm Spike, it's not a bad plan to wild shape and move up into melee.
I mean, they can shift or attack you and get hit for extra lightning damage ... or try to get away and provoke a savage rend ... which you can use to slide 'em next to an ally for even more annoyance.

When everyone's packed tight, wild shape (and get that free shift), drop a wall of thorns strategically, then move around.
Next turn, why ... how about a bit of this here storm spike, wild shape, flanking action?
Or just savage rend someone into the wall?

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining that Druids have it bad at all, just that essentially Wild Shape divides their powers up into two groups and forces you to into this slightly awkward "I have to use a minor action every time I want to use powers that only work in form X when I happen to be in form Y." In that sense Wild Shape itself is really a disadvantage. Its balanced out internally within the Druid class, but it does reduce the utility of their powers when you start mixing them with other stuff.

It is essentially the same mechanics that apply with barb rages and fighter stances. Except neither of those classes happens to have other powers that ONLY work while you are in a stance or rage. Actually of course barbs do have a few things they can only do while raging, but conversely there really isn't anything they can only do while NOT raging. So it is much less of an issue for those classes as they are written.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, a lot of classes have to use their minor actions fairly often.

If those minors are that big of an issue, there's fast wild shape ... although, getting the shift when wild shaping back is awesome.
Who else can do that at will?
If you have options in both forms, and your numbers are identical in both forms, then it doesn't matter that much what form you're in at any time.

But .. if you're looking at fighter/barbarian power swapping, why would you bother?
What does power swapping actually gain you ... for the price of a feat?

 

[Beckett]

Does a plate mail wearing druid who switches to beastform still clank when they walk and suffer non-proficiency penalties?

They're still getting the armor bonus, right? Then yeah, they're still getting the penalty. Might not be clanking, but they'd probably be moving stiffly or something.

 

[DracoSuave]

Wait.

WAIT.

I just read the druid multiclass feat.

You get Wild shape -as is.- Not 1/ encounter. Not 1/day. Just Wild shape.

That is -awesome-, and would be a great multiclass feat -right there-. A minor action shift every other turn is -OMGAMAZING-.

Turn 1: Wild Shape, charge, pin them down.
Turn 2: Wild Shape back, use your power with a better position.
Turn 3: Use your power, any move/minor action, Wild Shape.
Turn 4: Wild Shape, use power, any move/minor.

Basicly, you use Wild Shape as a free shift every other turn by alternating between using at the end of your turn, and using at the beginning of your turn. If you're not a character based around OAs, this can be -extremely- beneficial and can make it hard for a monster to pin you down.

And if you don't use your encounter power as a druid at the beginning, then that's a decent controlling OA you can fire in there every so often.

It's not for every character, but damn, if you've got free Minor Actions every turn, this is -not- a bad feat -at all-.