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D&D 5E Druid wildshape...

Sacrosanct

Legend
I've played it as well, and don't think it's overpowered at all. Why? Because of it's time limitations. You can only do it twice, and stay in that shape for # hours per level/2. Seeing as how the druid is underpowered combat wise compared to other classes without that ability, that's sort of their "limited time extra power" trade off. Like how a wizard normally doesn't do as much damage as other classes, but can occasionally and for a limited # of times cast a really damaging spell

So unless you do a short rest after every other encounter and use 15MWD, it's not really a problem in actual game play. There will be plenty of times (and in my sessions there have been) where you don't have that ability available in combat.
 

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WolfStar76

Explorer
As long as this is being discussed - I have a player looking to play a Druid/Monk combo.

He's looking forward to Druid 2/Monk 2 with Druid of the Moon as his path or whatever.

The plan being to wildshape into a brown bear, being able to bite, claw - and then spend Ki points on Flurry of blows.

I've only had time, of late, to skim the PH, but in my skimming it seems legit. I'm not looking to house rule it, but I'm curious what others think of the combo? Is there anything we are (I am) blatantly missing that prevents this?

While I'm at it, what about bite/claw/unarmed strike?

[EDIT] - he tells me it's bite/claw, not claw/claw. My bad.
 
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fsandow

Villager
I've been playing a moon druid in OP, and am currently at level 3. There's no question that WS is very powerful at levels 2 and 3, and probably at 4 as well. But while it's definitely at or above the top end of the PC power curve for those levels, I don't think it's actually overpowered, and certainly not broken.

First, the inability to cast spells in beast form is a significant tradeoff. If you're the party's primary healer, as I was in most of my sessions, then choosing when to shift into and out of beast form is a big deal, as is the decision whether to burn your spell slots to heal yourself.

Second, the available beasts have low ACs. My experience was that the dire wolf's 37 hitpoints vanished pretty quickly when facing multiple opponents or one opponent with multiattack. So far, wild shape tanking is less impressive in practice than on paper.

Third, and I realize this is hugely subjective, I never had the sense that I was overshadowing other PCs of equal level, particularly the spellcasters. I don't recall having an equal level fighter in any of my parties, though, so caveat emptor.

Fourth, having only two transformations per short rest, with no increase until 20th level, is a significant limitation. This will depend a lot on your short rest metagame, and how much use you're making of WS out of combat. If you're heading into every fight with both transformations available, then WS is much more powerful than if you're doing 3-4 fights per short rest. Staying in beast form between fights to conserve transformations has serious tradeoffs if you try to RP the communication limitations.

Finally, I'm pretty sure that the moon druid will fall back to the standard power curve at level 5 and thereafter, but it'll be hard to say for sure until we get the Monster Manual and see what the full selection of CR 2+ beasts looks like. Obviously there's a huge bump at level 20 with unlimited transformations and almost no limits on spellcasting, but that's not an issue I ever expect to deal with, and it's not at all clear to me that it's out of line with some of the crazy stuff that other classes get at level 20.

Also, a DM who's concerned about this in a campaign can exercise some control by strictly enforcing the rule that you can only turn into a beast that you've seen. I would have no problem with a DM ruling that a druid who was raised in a standard western European setting can't turn into a lion, tiger or elephant, and that things like dire wolves and giant animals are off limits until you've actually seen them in the course of the campaign. (And wouldn't it be a great use of a druid's downtime to seek out new forms? You want to add Giant Boar to your WS options? Spend 10 days of downtime and make a Survival check.) And it looks like most of the higher CR beasts are dinosaurs...

All that being said, it doesn't take away from the fact that charging around as a dire wolf at level 2-3 has been a lot of fun - higher AC and hit points than a brown bear, easy access to advantage via pack tactics, and knocking enemies prone. If as a DM you genuinely see this as a problem, then limiting moon druids to CR 1/2 forms at levels 2-3 seems like something worth trying, but I'd recommend you give RAW a fair shake before going there.
 

I don't think bites and claws count as "unarmed strikes", which is a requirement for Flurry of Blows (unless you are using monk weapons).

As long as this is being discussed - I have a player looking to play a Druid/Monk combo.

He's looking forward to Druid 2/Monk 2 with Druid of the Moon as his path or whatever.

The plan being to wildshape into a brown bear, being able to bite, claw - and then spend Ki points on Flurry of blows.

I've only had time, of late, to skim the PH, but in my skimming it seems legit. I'm not looking to house rule it, but I'm curious what others think of the combo? Is there anything we are (I am) blatantly missing that prevents this?

While I'm at it, what about bite/claw/unarmed strike?

[EDIT] - he tells me it's bite/claw, not claw/claw. My bad.
 

Unadvisedgoose

First Post
Then at level 20 when you can use it unlimited times per day, you are pretty much unkillable. Wow... I just really found it hard to believe as the level 2 druid I am running Hoard of the Dragon Queen for ended up soloing a supposedly nigh unbeatable foe

***SPOILER******

He went against the half-dragon who challenges one pc and actually killed him due to wildshape.


I know this is super old by now, but I saw this from the thread rez, and I had to ask...

I can't even fathom how this was possible. I'm a moon Druid and did this exact same thing at level 2 and I got stomped into the dirt like it wasn't even funny. He shredded both bear forms and laughed off my attacks/spells. Did Cyanwrath fumble every attack or something? I know for a fact my DM didn't fudge anything regarding his abilities when I faced him.
 


Tzarevitch

First Post
That's interesting. I'm torn on that, on the one hand they're not "weapons" but then again they might be "natural weapons". Hmmmmm.

You are reading too much into it. "Unarmed strike" is exactly as described in the PHB. A creature attack is what is listed under its description. If it doesn't call it an "unarmed strike" it isn't one.
 

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
I'm inclined to agree. A Druid/Monk can not use Flurry of Blows in bear form (or any animal for that matter...'cept maybe monkeys/apes). I would further go so far as to state, flat out, that no Monk abilities are available in animal form. You can be the animal. That's all it does.

...<quick skim of Monk in the PHB> Ok. I'd be inclined to allow Stillness of Mind (available at 7th) since the PC maintains their mental capacity, Purity of Body (available at 10th), and maaaaybe Diamond Soul (at 14th)...let them use Step of the Wind if you're a particularly permissive/magnanimous DM. Everything else is dependent on the Monk's mastery of their [presumably humanoid/bipedal] normal body.
 

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