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Dual Wielding Sucks- Some Thoughts on 3PP feat.
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<blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7499467" data-attributes="member: 6716779"><p>With the default ability array I think its worse than Pole Arm master and you are going to have to sink 4 more feats into it.</p><p></p><p> Its also less abusable than the -5/+10 feats where you can buy off the -5 part or use it with sharp shooter at -3 in effect with the archery style. To really abie it you have to give up buffing perhaps con. At best you can have 16/16 lvl 1 with a 13 con.</p><p></p><p> Compare with PAM who can have 16 str and 14 con.</p><p></p><p>1d6+6 X 2 is 19 average damage evel 1.</p><p></p><p>PAM is 1d10+3, 1d4+3 its 15.5 average but you often get a 3rd attack via the reach thing (avg damage 8.5 or 24 total).</p><p></p><p> And this is when dual wielding is the best relative to the other styles. Assuming a stat bump level 4 by level 5.</p><p></p><p>1d10+4, 1d10+4, 1d4+4 avg 25.5 vs 1d6+7 X3 (31.5) and you still get a potential reaction attack with PAM.</p><p></p><p> This is assuming you start with 16/16. Overall its competitive with PAM which is one of the better feats in the game but PAM also can stack with GWM so you get a 3rd attack even more via cleave.</p><p></p><p>Assuming a doubnle 16, best case senario is a fighter that by level 12 can have 20/20 str/dex where this feat out right gives you +5 to all damage. I have seen sharpshooter+ crossbow experts using the -3/+10 part every ombat and even if the -3 causes them to miss a few times anything less than 2 misses is an absolute upgrade over the base damage.</p><p></p><p> Rolled stascan blow this ojt of the water ut once again I have seen level 1 PCs using the -5/+10 part of those feats due to things likie 20 str/dex and 19 con on the same PC lvl 1. </p><p></p><p> So yeah it seems competitiveness with PAM, the -5/+10 feats at the cost of less hit points probably (con is a tertiary), so from that PoV I think its probably fine its actually less abusable than the -5/+10 feats and things like Sorlock. If you are playing with feats and multiclassing you may as well let it in IMHO its an option for dex based melee to make them not suck. My halfing did have roleld stats and started with 17 dex and 15 strength which is not to much higher than the default array and I had to wait to level 4 to take the feat.</p><p></p><p> Full feat</p><p>\</p><p>+1 str or dex</p><p></p><p>Can draw a weapon with the light or thrown property as part of making an attack with it</p><p></p><p>str+ dex to light weapons.</p><p></p><p> It also enables things like action surging and throwing spears or daggers which RAW you can't do.</p><p></p><p> The spell buffed cleric is also doing similar amounts of damage and by level 8 or so functionally can keep up spirit guardians every/most fights (she has warcaster).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zardnaar, post: 7499467, member: 6716779"] With the default ability array I think its worse than Pole Arm master and you are going to have to sink 4 more feats into it. Its also less abusable than the -5/+10 feats where you can buy off the -5 part or use it with sharp shooter at -3 in effect with the archery style. To really abie it you have to give up buffing perhaps con. At best you can have 16/16 lvl 1 with a 13 con. Compare with PAM who can have 16 str and 14 con. 1d6+6 X 2 is 19 average damage evel 1. PAM is 1d10+3, 1d4+3 its 15.5 average but you often get a 3rd attack via the reach thing (avg damage 8.5 or 24 total). And this is when dual wielding is the best relative to the other styles. Assuming a stat bump level 4 by level 5. 1d10+4, 1d10+4, 1d4+4 avg 25.5 vs 1d6+7 X3 (31.5) and you still get a potential reaction attack with PAM. This is assuming you start with 16/16. Overall its competitive with PAM which is one of the better feats in the game but PAM also can stack with GWM so you get a 3rd attack even more via cleave. Assuming a doubnle 16, best case senario is a fighter that by level 12 can have 20/20 str/dex where this feat out right gives you +5 to all damage. I have seen sharpshooter+ crossbow experts using the -3/+10 part every ombat and even if the -3 causes them to miss a few times anything less than 2 misses is an absolute upgrade over the base damage. Rolled stascan blow this ojt of the water ut once again I have seen level 1 PCs using the -5/+10 part of those feats due to things likie 20 str/dex and 19 con on the same PC lvl 1. So yeah it seems competitiveness with PAM, the -5/+10 feats at the cost of less hit points probably (con is a tertiary), so from that PoV I think its probably fine its actually less abusable than the -5/+10 feats and things like Sorlock. If you are playing with feats and multiclassing you may as well let it in IMHO its an option for dex based melee to make them not suck. My halfing did have roleld stats and started with 17 dex and 15 strength which is not to much higher than the default array and I had to wait to level 4 to take the feat. Full feat \ +1 str or dex Can draw a weapon with the light or thrown property as part of making an attack with it str+ dex to light weapons. It also enables things like action surging and throwing spears or daggers which RAW you can't do. The spell buffed cleric is also doing similar amounts of damage and by level 8 or so functionally can keep up spirit guardians every/most fights (she has warcaster). [/QUOTE]
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