D&D 5E Dumping your Warlock Patron

[Falling Icicle]

I wouldn't take away any of the warlock's powers. I think roleplaying consequences are more appropriate than lost class features and much more fun. Here are a few ideas:

- The fiend that was the warlock's patron becomes his nemesis. It might make repeated attempts to tempt him back into its service, or even plot his demise. Will he succumb to his master's machinations?

- Whatever agreement the warlock made with the fiend is binding. If he promised his firstborn child, the forces of darkness will come for it once it has been born. If he sold his soul, it will be dragged down into the abyss when he dies. Will he accept his fate, or try to reclaim what he lost?

- In retaliation for breaking the pact, the fiend places a terrible curse on the warlock, one that can't be broken even with a wish spell. Maybe he is cursed to never find true love, and his relationships always end in tragedy and sorrow. Maybe everything he builds is doomed to fall into ruin. Every curse can be broken somehow. Can the warlock do whatever is required to break it?

- When the pact was forged, the warlock accepted some of the fiend's vile essence into himself. There is a darkness branded upon his very soul. As his powers grow, he loses more and more of his humanity, slowly transforming into something... else. Can he conquer his own inner demons?

 

[jrowland]

I like the curses, although I'd opt for something like the PC in question now reeks of brimstone and they suffer a dis on persuasion checks. they are essentially cursed to give everyone the willies (even other fiends!).

 

[sidonunspa]

In my games nothing comes without a price...

the patron will ask things of you... and if you dont do them.. suddenly your spell slots (not cantrips) are gone..... a patrion should be able to strip you of powers..they grant them, and thus take them away.

switching patrons can happen and may be a instant switch (with some time to learn how to use you new powers and understand your responsabilities)

want a good idea of how you should deal with a warlock and their patrion.. read the dresden files.... Cold Days will give you a REAL good idea how things could work.

 

[Joe Liker]

A small quibble -- it is extremely unlikely that a devil would send demons to harass anyone. The two groups do not traditionally get along well.

And my personal opinion is that breaking the pact should require a lot more than a simple "Good-bye, nice knowing you." It should be the focus of a monumental quest that spans the majority of the character's story arc.

And even though warlock powers are described as granted knowledge, that doesn't mean they can't be un-granted. And I think that's exactly what should happen if the pact is truly broken -- all warlock-class-related abilities are wiped from the character's mind. That is the absolute least punishing thing that should happen.

 

[Falling Icicle]

If clerics, a divine class, can't lose their powers for turning against their gods, then warlocks, an arcane class, most certainly shouldn't lose their powers for turning on their patrons, IMO.

 

[green_destiny]

...want a good idea of how you should deal with a warlock and their patrion.. read the dresden files.... Cold Days will give you a REAL good idea how things could work.

Exactly. Finally someone mentioned Dresden Files! He's a wizard (sorcerer - for his innate abilities) but still it gives a good idea on the possible consequences of this scenario. As shown in Dresden's story, breaking pacts with fey, devils, vampires, even a crime mob boss is no easy task.

Its really up to the DM but an objective DM will not make forego a scenario like this easily. Really in a way its spices up the character's story as well.

 

[was]

The DM might want to resurrect and convert the Paladin in Hell module from 2nd ed.

 

[AmerginLiath]

I don't have the PHB, but I thought that the patron doesn't grant spellcasting power (like a deity to Clerics) but rather teaches arcane knowledge. In which case, the patron cannot take the imparted knowledge back, so the Warlock doesn't lose anything.

I think that it's actually the opposite. Since the Warlock does NOT have 'Spellcasting' as an ability like all the other classes, but rather 'Pact Magic,' the spell slots are at the complete control of the patron – hence why they don't play well in multi-class. It makes sense, of course, as to the 'ease' of providing magic to the Warlock without having to actually learn Spellcasting like others (even a Cleric or Paladin, supported by a god for his magic, would assumedly have to learn the rites for his magic). If the Pact was revoked, so too would the Pact Magic be lost. Whether that means the Spells Known would be lost is another question (since those can be used in Spellcasting slots for other classes, those may be provided but still actually learned).

Were *I* the DM running this, I'd likely approach it one of three* ways. Either change the pact on the Warlock levels to a reworked Archfey(?) pact to show a bond to Bahamut, go on a quest to trade in the Warlock levels for Paladin levels (possibly keeping a number of Warlock spells-known in lieu of the Paladin spells that would have been learned), or else trade in the Warlock levels for levels in draconic Sorceror as the closest no-need-to-rework thing to a Dragon Warlock to show the changes wrought by the new bond. In any case, such a change of sides in planar battles isn't going to go off without some mark on him.

(* The DMG preview on Villains describing the Oathbreaker discusses how one can trade in subclasses in certain circumstances, which I think this works with. Were it just one character in a story, losing Warlock powers or at least spells would be perfectly tenable in story, but that decline in total power for the sake of story ends up costing the rest of the party at the table, and it would be a shame to cost them a good story just to save them that problem; it would be equally a shame to hand-wave the issue and have him keep on having all the Fiend powers...)

 

[Erifnogard]

If I were running the game, I would consult the player to see what kind of story they were interested in telling. My own inclination is that the warlock does not lose any powers or levels as they are knowledge that was imparted as part of the pact deal rather than granted powers. Also, I find story lines where the DM screws the player out of character abilities unsatisfying unless that is what the player wants. If the warlock wished to continue advancing as a warlock, I would require them to seek out a new patron and make a new pact.

If I were a player, I would drop that character if the DM took away warlock spells/abilities as that doesn't match my concept of how the warlock works.

 

[Ahrimon]

Isn't one of the basic story options in the PHB a warlock who gives his patron the middle finger?

I would never take away a characters powers unless that player wanted it as part of the story. I could see having agents of the patron showing up every now and then to either attack the character or convice him or her to return to the fold. I would do the same for a cleric or druid that abandoned their deity or a paladin that forsake their oath. The power is already theirs and can't be taken back, but they can be constantly reminded of where they got it in fun story ways.