[Dungeon World] Barbarian vs Druid

[Wightbred]

So there's a poll on the Dungeon World Kickstarter to see if they add the Barbarian or Druid classes to the base game as a stretch goal.

The Druid is kicking the Barbarian's butt 2:1 right now with only $3k to go. Any ENworlders backing this? Why so little love for the awesome Barbarian?

 

[mach1.9pants]

Because the barbarian has always been the least well described class (maybe with the paladin) in any fantasy RPG. Call it berserker and I could get with it, otherwise I'll stick with something that has a niche.
I put my vote in based on that, didn't see any links on the KS where more info could be gained. Maybe the DW barb is actually a barb (barbarian = non-civilised - rangery I guess) and not a rager? Can't change my vote now!

 

[Wightbred]

Because the barbarian has always been the least well described class (maybe with the paladin) in any fantasy RPG. Call it berserker and I could get with it, otherwise I'll stick with something that has a niche.

That's it! I want a rampaging Berserker, and I have a very clear idea what that is. But if I had the choice between a Druid and a poorly defined Barbarian I guess I might go Druid too.

 

[Wightbred]

Thinking about hacking up a Berserker now. Some sweet moves from the Faceless we could use. Interested?

 

[Macbeth]

As with all our classes, Adam and I are pulling from as many sources as possible to get a clear idea of what a Barbarian or Druid is.

For the Barbarian rage would certainly be a core option, but not the only one. I recently read an early Chinese account of the savages to the north and thought "those are totally Barbarians" which led to the idea that I think we'd put at the core of the class: you're not from around here.

Our working draft was a core move that gave you a list of things that are true of your homeland but not true of wherever the game is taking place. Whenever you embrace one of those traditions you get a benefit, or you can abandon them. Each one you abandon gives you 1 XP, but once you've abandoned them all you can't gain new Barbarian moves.

To me that's the core of the class, that's what make it not just a Fighter. On top of that we'd add some moves that reflect other typical Barbarian tropes: high HP, low armor, and the ability to turn damage taken into damage dealt. We also had some stuff about shaman-ish magic, just for kicks.

The Druid on the other hand has two very different drafts right now. (We've started working on it more since it has such a massive lead in votes.) Shapeshifting is core to both, of course, but the way magic flows with each changes.

In one of them magic and shapeshifting are two different things. Shapeshifting lets you take on any animal form and magic is based on the land you'ev bonded with. We're being very careful to make the land bond not a restriction, since being a Forest Druid in a desert shouldn't suck.

In the other draft shapeshifting and magic kind of flow form the same core mechanic. in this version the Druid is all about seeing the magic/spirits in things and being able to work with them. This can mean learning their form (shapeshifting) or having them act on your behalf (entangle, for example).

Anyway, those are the thoughts going on right now around DWHQ. We're constantly trying to nail down what we think the essence of a class is, and these two provide some real challenges. I'm excited to see how the winner turns out!

 

[Wightbred]

I was worried by something you said on the kickstarter site that the Barbarian wouldN't have rage, but I guess I missed your point. These initial options sound pretty sweet, and you and Adam nailed the style of the other core classes spot on so I know whichever one gets up will be great. Barbarians with all the basics and shamanistic magic and Druids bonded to specific lands makes a tough choice.

This has made me realize that what I really want is not a Barbarian but a smash-through-the-scenery bite-a-shield-and-foam-at-the-mouth hit-you-with-whatever-is-at-hand Berserker. The cool thing is how easy it would be to design this myself because you've put the tools to do it in the core. Back in the day we used to hack our D&D pretty hard, but I stopped doing it at 4e. I'd never dream of making a 4e character class, but I think I could hack up a Berserker for tonight's game. Or maybe I'll hit that free $250 level, because I'd sure like to see what you and Adam could do with Berserker as a Compenium Class.

 

[Sanglorian]

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[Macbeth]

Yeah, our Barbarian would have certainly had some of the classic Barbarian-style combat moves. We were thinking of basing his combat abilities on taking risks/damage. We just don't want to call that "Rage" since we tried designing down that avenue and it didn't work quite right for us. Rage is tricky, since it usually involves some element of losing control. Every time we attempted that it either didn't seem to matter that you lost control or it mattered way too much and felt constraining.

So we started looking at "Rage" as more of a disregard for consequences and took it from there. Instead of just making a move that says you lose control, instead we were thinking of moves that made "losing control" and taking dangerous risks the way to really build up power. In a way that's still rage: you're still benefiting from going crazy. We just were phrasing that in such a way that you had to actually be a little crazy, instead of just saying "I'm raging now."

Anyway, that's all on hold for now as the Druid has won our poll by a handy margin. In fact, it had such a large margin that we got a head start on the art and design and it's nearly ready to playtest.