D&D 5E Dungeons and Dragons and the RPG Stigma

[Henry]

Maybe it's a tech industry thing, but I work in a bullpen where I hear a conversation started by someone other than me about D&D, or Skyrim, Or Pillars of Eternity, or D&D novels, or Game of Thrones, at least twice a week, from people ages 25 to 40. Among my work desk junk is a huge foam green D20. It still absolutely shocks me that people still run into experiences where D&D is shunned or badmouthed by people in their 40s or younger.

 

[Sezarious]

D&D however is simple. If you have a boss who looks down on it, smile and be polite then immediately cease chit chatting with them about it. Keep a PDF on your PC with the rules instead of open on your desk and work on your campaign that way.

I must agree with this. I'm quite shy about my D&D,partly because my parents were always so against it. Though as shy as I am, I probably would have tried to jest with the doctor if I was already on friendly terms with him "You... don't really know what D&D is do you?" And then talked up the intellectualism behind it, compared to video games along with the greater versatility it has. I always describe it as a completely interactive story.

 

[Talmek]

I must agree with this. I'm quite shy about my D&D,partly because my parents were always so against it.

Yours too?

My parents fell victim to the 1980s "D&D is Satanic" panic and so anything having to do with it was inherently evil and must be destroyed. Fortunately my mom is not so prideful not to laugh at herself about it; however, to this day when she comes over she still asks me if I'm playing "that devil-worshipping game", which I'm sure is said in jest...mostly...hopefully.

On the other hand the good news is that my kids and their friends have never heard of the game, so I basically have a clean slate to teach them how to play (if they so choose).

 

[Sword of Spirit]

You know, I'm feeling fortunate now that my parents never had a problem with D&D, despite the fact that they have very little interest in fantasy or games. I remember a time I was having emotional difficulties as a teenager and was out of school. An assigned tutor came over and I overheard him talking with my mom about what he had heard was that my issues came from getting involved in D&D (I had been seen with a PHB at school!), and she told him that it had nothing to do with that.

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

D&D never had the negative press here in Denmark that it did in the US and most people had no idea what it was. I think my mother was just glad that I got out of the house and socialized a bit.

 

[aramis erak]

I think, as a general rule, anything that smart, nerdy kids do is going to become more acceptable thirty years later, because people in positions of power are more likely than not to have been smart, nerdy kids or to have had friends who were.

Except that, in general, Smart & Nerdy people do NOT wind up in positions of power. Smart & nerdy wind up in technical positions, while slightly-above average but sociopathic and from wealth is the general recipe for positions of power, at least in North America, with a small exception for smart and sociopathic for tech corporations. A study was done in the 90's, and found that senior execs in fortune 500 companies are far more likely than the general populace to have sociopathy. Likewise, it's quite evident from the behavior that quite a few elected politicians have no moral compass whatsoever, and the rest seem generally "ethically challenged"...

Wealthy, attractive, and without a conscience is the recipe for success in a market economy.

I mean, looking at the last few UK PM's and US Presidents, US Speaker of the House, and Senate Majority Leader and Minority Whip, They're not really all that smart. Not stupid, but they all frequently say some of the damnedest inanities.

Hell, even in the games industry... (looks Decipher's way. And TSR's.)

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Except that, in general, Smart & Nerdy people do NOT wind up in positions of power. Smart & nerdy wind up in technical positions, while slightly-above average but sociopathic and from wealth is the general recipe for positions of power, at least in North America, with a small exception for smart and sociopathic for tech corporations. A study was done in the 90's, and found that senior execs in fortune 500 companies are far more likely than the general populace to have sociopathy. Likewise, it's quite evident from the behavior that quite a few elected politicians have no moral compass whatsoever, and the rest seem generally "ethically challenged"...

Do you have a reference? My recollection is that sociopathy has a prevalence of about 2% in the general population, and about 3% among CEOs. I think that's from Robert Hare's Without Conscience, but the number stuck with me more than the source did. 50% higher prevalence is indeed a dramatic elevation (clearly something is selecting for sociopathy), but in absolute terms 3% is still only a small fraction.

 

[aramis erak]

Do you have a reference? My recollection is that sociopathy has a prevalence of about 2% in the general population, and about 3% among CEOs. I think that's from Robert Hare's Without Conscience, but the number stuck with me more than the source did. 50% higher prevalence is indeed a dramatic elevation (clearly something is selecting for sociopathy), but in absolute terms 3% is still only a small fraction.

Not to hand, but the prevalence of sociopathic symptomology was closer to 10% in ceo's of fortune 500 companies. Sample size was IIRC about 40.

Now, Wai claims that they're amongst the world's smartest people, but critiques of his methodology show he's full of statstical misrepresentation, and his data merely suggests that the average CEO is IQ 125 - which is absolutely flat average for college graduates. (https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/the-iqs-of-fortune-500-ceos/ )

the 3-4% rate is Psychopathy - which is more severe. (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/drisht...reneurs-psychopaths-multiple-studies-say-yes/)

Note that the general rate of sociopathy is 2%-4% according to the APA... Also there's extensive overlap of symtoms - most psychopaths are also meeting the criteria for sociopaths.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Thank you. (You're overestimating the IQ of college grads by a fair ways BTW; college grads are about one standard deviation out, which is 115 by the scale the brainsize article is apparently using. So CEOs really are brighter than the average college grad. But that's off-topic.)

 

[Nawara]

Except that, in general, Smart & Nerdy people do NOT wind up in positions of power. Smart & nerdy wind up in technical positions, while slightly-above average but sociopathic and from wealth is the general recipe for positions of power, at least in North America, with a small exception for smart and sociopathic for tech corporations. A study was done in the 90's, and found that senior execs in fortune 500 companies are far more likely than the general populace to have sociopathy. Likewise, it's quite evident from the behavior that quite a few elected politicians have no moral compass whatsoever, and the rest seem generally "ethically challenged"... Wealthy, attractive, and without a conscience is the recipe for success in a market economy. I mean, looking at the last few UK PM's and US Presidents, US Speaker of the House, and Senate Majority Leader and Minority Whip, They're not really all that smart. Not stupid, but they all frequently say some of the damnedest inanities.

...yeah, I like Elizabeth Warren, too.

But I wasn't talking about Fortune 500 CEOs or specific elected officials. That's not a big enough sample size, nor are those representative of powerful positions as a whole. Firstly, there are no educational requirements for any of those jobs. Secondly, a successful person can very easily put their kid in charge when they retire.

When it comes to personality types, the administrative agencies and the federal judiciary might as well be ComicCon. Why? Because, unlike elected positions, appointed positions generally require credentials. And those credentials often include good grades, elite graduate degrees from schools that base their admissions on standardized tests, publications, and demonstrable work experience in fields that value the same. I'm not saying all or even most of them are nerds (though they probably are); I'm saying that nerds are extremely overrepresented.

But, like I said at the beginning, I wasn't really talking about government or corporate senior management. I was talking about the highest ranks of the professions. And I can assure you that the power hitters in law, investment banking, consulting, engineering, medicine, the military, the (mainline) clergy, and the like are much, much nerdier than the average bear.

Whether you end up in an executive or professional position vs. underappreciated IT support purgatory, meanwhile, has more to do with your interpersonal skills than with your love of elfgames and spaceshows. There are plenty of extroverted (or faking it) nerds expensing business class flights, and plenty of introverted bros languishing near the bottom of the Enterprise Architecture org chart.

As for sociopathy, there are just as many nerdy sociopaths as not-nerdy sociopaths. Probably more. Being a nerd doesn't make you a good person; just ask any female who likes comics or video games and either attends in-person events or puts her opinions on the internet.