Dungeons sizes

[Haltherrion]

On a recent business trip, I had a chance to go into the medieval beer cellars in Nuremberg. It was a fun tour with some good history, beer-craft and even some interesting notes on the environment in the caves such as how medieval folks maintained air circulation and so on.

The biggest eye opener for me was how big the cellars were. Granted, they were created over hundred of years but they are over 200,000 square feet in extent (in four or so clusters connected in WWII to form bomb shelters). They are also carved in sandstone which is fairly soft. The cellars aren't cavernous open area but interconnected wide aisles with regular small bays on each side plus the occasional shaft for air, lifting barrels, crooked stairs, etc. Very good terrain for monster encounters There are also medievel water tunnels that used bored out tree trunks for pipes that are not as capacious but provide many kilometers of passages.

While I still use large natural caverns, most of my human-crafted dungeons for the last decade or more have been pretty small under the general sense that it isn't easy to excavate solid rock (plus I haven't been doing dungeon crawls and don't really need the big ones). After spending some time in these cellars, I have to reconsider.

How about others? Do you use large or small dungeons? Worry much about how they are made?

 

[Diamond Cross]

It all depends on the mood my players want, really. Sometimes all they want to do is a dungeon crawl that can be completed in a single evening in about four to five hours. Sometimes they want to do a massive dungeon like Ruins Of The Undermountain, or ROTU.

And for our group it's not really all that important as opposed to destroying monsters and amassing treasure.

It also sounds like you'd be interested in the show "Cities Of The Underworld" which used to appear on the History Channel from time to time. In it, the host gets access to the underground historic places of old cities. You'd be really surprised at what's actually underneath many cities. And I'm not talking things like catacombs either. Some of these areas are also not open to the general public.

 

[the Jester]

Interesting.

Yes, I've typically assumed that excavation is a PITA and that most subterranean areas that are constructed (as opposed to natural) will be no larger than necessary for the builders' purposes. Now I'll have to reconsider this myself!

 

[The Shaman]

Do you use large or small dungeons?

As large as practicable.

Worry much about how they are made?

I wouldn't call it worrying per se, but I find when I think about the purposes of why a particular subterranean space is built, and particularly how that space was repurposed over time, it opens up all sorts of interesting ideas for everything from hazards and traps to encounters and treasure.

Frex, for the megadungeon notes I fiddle with from time to time, I figured out how to have a water system that would make things like fountains function long after the builders were gone, and what would happen if sections of the water system stopped working over time. Voila! Now I've got working fountains and pools in some places, broken fountains and empty pools in others, and spaces which collapsed or flooded as a result of the system breaking down; I also have a piping system which provides conduits between rooms and levels allowing small monsters (or adventurers) to move around the dungeon.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I don't do dungeons much - but, yeah, sandstone and chalk can lead to some big holes in the ground.

Take a look at the tunnels of Rottingdean in Sussex, England - smugglers' tunnels under much of the town, with the largest tunnel leading to the church.... Carved into the chalk.

Rottingdean's sub economy was ruined when the tax laws got changed, and suddenly it was cheaper to buy things from the continent legally rather than rely on smugglers, I am pretty sure the tunnels are closed off now as unsafe.

Then you have situations like London, Seattle, and Chicago - where the city is built over the cellars of the older buildings, rinse and repeat for a few hundred years - the closest to a 'dungeon' that I have used in years. Tunnels linking sewer, cellar, and Underground.

The Auld Grump

 

[Ed_Laprade]

I don't worry about how they were built/excavated. But as much as I'd like to use huge areas, if it doesn't fit on a battlemat its just too big to bother with.

 

[TarionzCousin]

I used to love building huge dungeons that filled multiple pieces of graph paper and were several "levels." But 4E doesn't seem to support that style of gaming, IMHO. The largest 4E dungeon I've created was 8 rooms, 3 of which were empty of monsters and one of which only had a semi-sentient non-combatant golem for a skill challenge.

 

[ibldedibble]

I mostly use fairly small dungeons, with the occasinal medium to large sized ones.

Early on especially I go for smaller dungeons, so the PCs have (at least) a slim chance to survive if they want to go through the entire thing immediately.

 

[Hand of Evil]

I mix and match but mostly use a number of small dungeons spread out over an area, each one is 2 to 5 levels but area covered can be large.

A real life dungeon: Wieliczka Salt Mines

 

[Dioltach]

Do you use large or small dungeons?

I use A4-sized dungeons.

Seriously, it's been a long time since I drew up a large dungeon. I've been meaning to for a while, but time contstraints mean that I'm usually preparing my games a few hours beforehand.

What I do find myself doing, though, is creating a large complex -- dead city, temple complex, citadel -- and defining parts as they become necessary. I don't worry too much about logistics, because a) it's a fantasy game with magic and b) it's a fantasy game where excitement and fun are more important than realism.