Dysfunctional Gamer Behaviour

[drnuncheon]

Instead of "treat everyone else like NPCs," like drnuncheon says, I think the behavior is best summed up in "treat everyone else like I was a annoying 10-year old brat."

It's the same thing, really: the lack of ability and/or desire to take those around you into account. The belief that you are the most important person present.

Well, I was expecting something a little more subtle and less vitriolic. I would agree that there exist a small percentage of gamers who are complete frothing geeks who speak in bad movie quotes and aren't sure where they stop and others begin. However, I was hoping more for observations about what socially impairs the majority of gamers.

Don't imagine that I think that all of my points apply to all gamers - but even one or two are bad habits that will set people's teeth on edge and cause them to not want to be around you, and most of the people with these habits seem incapable of realizing that they have them.

As for the rest of the crowd, a large portion of those that are left are the "quiet types" who would not enjoy social or sexual success no matter what hobbies they engaged in. They lack the strength of desire necessary to overcome their shyness and actually attempt contact with other people. While they may not have bad habits that actively drive others away, they also do not work to attract others.

In general, after subtracting out those folks, the remaining people are the gamers who are socially and sexually successful.

J

 

[fusangite]

MarauderX articulates what I believe to be the crux of the geek problem. I have excerpted his quotes and quite rudely bolded the words I think expecially relevant to what I want to articulate:

- Be calm. Don't get nervous or excited that often, try drinking less coffee/dew/coke...

...It's not being conceided, it's changing your style a bit so that you will FEEL good about yourself, which helps with the next subject.

- Don't be afraid of any social situations. None. Talk to everyone to get some practice, ask questions, give feedback. Throw out some compliments to some people you don't see that often. Ignore those bad responses, they will happen, some days more often than others.

- There is safety in numbers... when you feel outgoing bring your friends along so that you can have fun together. There are not many easier natural targets than a single Geek out after sunset.

- Don't be afraid to be yourself, but learn when to paraphase. Don't change who you are, only adjust how you are and have fun.

Well, there we go: this is always what I fear this is all really about. Whether one feels fear is not, of course, a matter of choice. It is a matter of neurochemistry. People feel fear -- and others can perceive this fear.

I didn't really want to directly come out and make this the subject of the thread but for me, this is what it all comes back to. I understand that all the time, people become less fearful or cease being fearful at all through changes they make to themselves. I just can't figure out how these changes are made.

Practice is touted, often, as a way of overcoming fear -- but I find that just as often, repeatedly doing things you fear and having bad things happen to you as a result actually deepens and intensifies said fear rather than diffusing it.

So, factoring out (for the moment) chemical means of controlling fear, how is it that these things are to be done? This is not a rhetorical question.

 

[Ricochet]

I think drnuncheon has some very good points.

Almost every gamer I have ever met, probably including myself, tend to be know-it-alls and has a hard time letting go of their own voice.

Many RP'ers are also very stubborn and slightly arrogant (in my experience).

 

[jdavis]

A lot of the problem has to do with stereotypes, gamers are geeks, rich people are snobby, politicians are wormy, lawyers are slimey bottomfeeders, people in the south are rednecks........... I could go on and on. The people who most readily represent the gamer stereotype are the people who are the most vocal and seen, stereotypes are not generalizations they are parodies. That annoying guy who carries his book bag to the mall just in case he meets somebody who wants to game is not the generalization but he is the most visible. Lots of people game but most of us do not go around bragging to strangers about our +2 swords, most of us don't brag about gaming in general, heck I'm sure a lot of us have gotten the "I didn't know you were one of them" looks from people when they found out you roleplay. Yes a lot of gamers are shy people who use gaming as a escape from the real world (like me), but that has nothing to do with gaming, there are a lot of shy people who don't game. If I said, "I am a huge fan of pro wrestling" then you would make assumptions about me, "if I said I build my own computers" you would make assumptions about me, "I like anime", "I like '80's metal music", "I like "50's era Hot Rods", "I used to work on a oil rig in Alaska", "I didn't date till I was 18", "I like Pro Football"..........I could go on and on here too, but that's enough to make the point, which one of those little snippits tells you who I am and what I am like socially? Every one of them has a stereotype attached to it, but all those stereotypes don't mesh together. The older you get the less these types of stereotypes matter but people are always trying to fit you into a catagory that makes sense to them. A prime example of this is all talk surrounding Vin Diesel being a gamer, why should him liking to game make people think any different of him? Gaming carries a stigma brought on by the stereotype of the annoying guy who rolls dice to see if he will tip the waitress at Denny's or not, just like popular rich kids carry the image of being the bad guys in teen comming of age movies. Not every Star Trek fan wears a uniform in public and not all gamers are socially inept, those are just the ones who get all the public attention.

 

[ptrpete]

I wanted to reply to this

I understand that all the time, people become less fearful or cease being fearful at all through changes they make to themselves. I just can't figure out how these changes are made.

Practice is touted, often, as a way of overcoming fear -- but I find that just as often, repeatedly doing things you fear and having bad things happen to you as a result actually deepens and intensifies said fear rather than diffusing it.

So, factoring out (for the moment) chemical means of controlling fear, how is it that these things are to be done? This is not a rhetorical question.

Difficult to do on your own, because likely you don't realise what you are subconsciously doing to trigger the bad things happening. What I have found with my own problems is two things:

(a)Most of your fear is unfounded, but part is a real possibility. By saying "its all unfounded" you ignore the real danger and so get into trouble again. You need to find a trusted friend to talk about your fears, often you will realise what is real and not when you say it; but sometimes you need the friend listening to you to say what is something to be careful of and what is BS that I can ignore. Then you can find ways of dealing with the real things and (with practice) overcome your unfounded fears.

For example, maybe you think that a whole gang of people always make jokes at you. But actualy it is only one member of that group, the others just laugh along. So do things with that group when the one person is not around, and think of things to say back to him. Or worst case, find another group of people where that one person is not present ever.

(b)People fall into patterns of behavior and routine. Often this is harmless, e.g. always having the same type of coffee or always washing your left leg before your right when showering. People just like familiarity, and do these things automatically, without thinking.

But sometimes people get into self-destructive patterns. Even though you know saying X or doing Y will lead to you getting hurt you do it automatically, without thinking, and later think "why did I do that?".

When you get into one of these situations, you need to recognise what happens so that you can stop from repeating the behavior. But you probably don't realise what is happening, so you need someone you trust to point it out. If you don't trust them, you WILL ignore their advice (I did). But if you trust them, then they are probably not going to say things that might upset you. So you need to ask them to say what they see, even though it will hurt your feelings in the short term.

If this doesn't happen, then you will never realise what the pattern is and be unable to stop it (not that it will be easy, but at least it will be possible).

You might find it easier to talk to a therapist rather than a friend. I know I was very embarrassed to talk to my friends about my problems, but a professional who is bound by patient confidentiality was not a problem.

 

[apocalypstick]

you can get away with being whoever you are as long as you carry it off with self-confidence and panache. everyone i know knows i play d&d, and the pretty girls still call me up to see what i'm doing friday nights. (but not sundays, though... they know better, ha-ha)

d&d is a social game, after all... if you can play that game you can play the other... really. i swear.

and know your "audience." if they're not Monty Python fans, why would you even think about quoting it?

finally, remember this... if you only have one field of interest (d&d), you're not gonna have a lot to talk about. expand your horizons. read some philosophy. go camping. take in a baseball game. you get the picture...

 

[Ozmar]

Just a rambling rant about gamers and socialibility...

I know a LOT of gamers. I've gamed a lot, and most (not all) of my friends are gamers. They come in many, many flavors. Some (most) are geeks. But geek is not a stereotype that gives you an accurate picture of a person, b/c there are many, many types of geeks. Some are geeky about movies, some about food, some about books, some about sports, etc... Gaming itself is kinda geeky, so the name fits just about all gamers.

Some of my gaming friends are... socially maladjusted. Some gamers I know you wouldn't want within 50 feet of your dog (they have their good points, but its hard to see them). Some have mental or physical disorders that make life a little more challenging for them, but they also have plenty of good qualities. The "challenged" gamers I know are among the most kind and polite people I know.

But most gamers I know are socially outgoing, smart, talented, friendly, attractive, sociable, and well-regarded. Many are married, college-educated, successful and happy. Some are business owners. (A few own game stores.) Some are in the military, some are scientists, many work in computers or technology. Some have children. Almost all are fun to be with and have many interests in addition to gaming (and not all of them are traditionally geeky interests), such as sports, biking, movies, music, politics, computers, origami, knitting, singing, martial arts, philosophy, reading, drinking, archaeology, the stock market and traveling.

So gamers are all very different. But they are all very similar, too. What makes them similar? Well, a love of games for one. But even more to the point, gamers are people with imagination. Every gamer I know has an incredible imagination, and they use it. They are creative people. They can look at a rock and see a bird trapped inside. They can discuss an imaginary world with their friends and see adventure. They are not trapped by the boundaries of what they can see and hear. They can imagine a world outside themselves.

For a lot of gamers, this makes them more empathic than some "ordinary people". I have found gamers to generally be more open and understanding and tolerant of others. I think this is b/c gamers have practice in pretending to be other people, so they tend to be able to understand another person's perspective. I've never been a doctor or a lawyer or a woman, nor have I lost my parents or had a serious injury - but I can imagine these things (somewhat) and have practiced imagining these things, and I think that gives me a little more talent in emphasizing with people who may have experienced these things. Gaming (at its best) is an exercise in using our imaginations to put ourselves in the lives of other people, and thereby to gain greater understanding of our world.

My gaming friends have a word for non-gamers who don't have any imagination. They call them "cardboard" (though not to their faces, I'm sure), because they're like cardboard cutouts of people. They have interests, but are not passionate about them. They don't understand why we get excited about a new movie or a good book or a song we really like. They consume the products of our popular culture (reality tv, movies, magazines) but don't really think about them, or use them to expand their concepts or experience. I've met very few "cardboard" people. I think its a natural ability for people to imagine. Some are better than others, but we can all get better with practice.

OK. Enough from me.

[/end rant]

Ozmar the Imaginative Gamer

 

[Gothmog]

Well, speaking as a guy who used to fit the gamer stereotype to a tee, there are some things you can do to improve your social skills and make you more comfortable around the opposite sex.

1) When I came to grad school, I HAD to start teaching lab sections of biology courses. I was petrified at first, but after a few lectures, I steadily felt more confident. When you say something, say it with meaning and confidence- don't pussyfoot around and mumble, stutter, or look down. Look people in the eye and maintain eye contact. I can walk into an auditorium of 500 people now and give a 15 minute presentation without feeling the slightest bit nervous or worried.

2) Feel good about yourself in all apects of your life. In high school and college, I felt awkward in social situations, and was never quite sure how to handle myself. I was also nearly 120 lbs overweight- I was 6'2" and 320 lbs. I felt very self-conscious and was always afraid I would be made fun of (although I never was, I was still deathly afraid of it). Consequently, I avoided every social situation like the black plague, and kept to gaming where I had complete control over my environment.

If that describes you- you have to break out of your rut. Find some social activity you enjoy, and involve yourself in it (for me it was teaching). Also- and I can't stress this enough- get in shape! Yes, its hard. Yes, its tough to stop yourself from eating the foods you adore to the point where you are stuffed. But it is worth it, both for your self-esteem and long term health. Three years ago I started walking 3 miles a day, cutting out the saturated fats and simple sugars from my diet. Two years ago, I started going to the gym 3-4 times a week and doing some fairly intensive weightlifting. Now, I'm 6'2" and 240 lbs, very healthy, and a physique much more like Triple H than Louie Anderson. I feel a lot better about myself, and others pick up on that, and are more likely to react positively to me than before.

3) My doctoral advisor gave me this advice for dealing with women- and it works wonders. NEVER look down or away when you talk to women you are interested in. Look them in the eye (not the chest) and listen to what they say. Carry on a conversation with them, and make comments based on what they are talking about (basically, treat them like any person deserves to be treated). Yes, they are girls- but surprisingly enough, they often have something valid and interesting to say! Seriously, you have no idea how many stereotypical "gamers" I have seen stammer, sweat, and act like complete pigs around women. Women do like a confident guy, and looking away, fidgeting, or acting distracted is a sure sign of a guy with low confidence. The other thing is to tease them nicely- nothing mean, but just playful jokes or jibes. The best he could explain this to me was that it sends the message that you are so comfortable around her and about yourself that you can even take the risk of offending her- but many women seem to see this as a sign of condifence and will respond VERY positively. God, if someone had told me I would be giving dating advice to anyone 3 years ago, I would have thought they were nuts. I never dated in high school or college, and didn't have a serious girlfriend until 2 years ago! Now, I can go up to very attractive women, and 80% of the time within 10 minutes have her email address or phone # (and yes, it drives some of my buddies nuts since I am NOT the player type). And you know what? When I tell them I game, or make a geeky reference- they don't care. In fact, many VERY attractive young ladies who have been former students or just acquaintances have seemed really interested in gaming once I explained it- so its not that they avoid geeks, women avoid geeks who are not CONFIDENT. However, don't be an ass- nobody likes a horse's patoot.

You're right to some degree fusangite- fear is a neurobiochemical response (and I should know, I am a neuroscientist). But you can alter the contingencies under which you feel fear, and thereby control under which circumstances you are anxious. Start small- just try a few things that make you anxious and be open to what happens. Remember, who cares if you do embarass yourself? Most people won't remember what happend past a few hours- so the only one who is punishing you is you! Have a sense of humor about yourself and life in general- if everything is life and death to you- you're always going to be stressed out and unhappy. Know when to laugh at yourself and move on- don't dwell on it. I know I have made a fool of myself in my lectures several times, but rather than get flustered, I make a joke about it and move on. You'd be surprised how forgiving people will be if you approach life in such a way.

 

[Viking Bastard]

I almost always have my dice bag on me, except for when I'm at work (cuz I don't have anywhere to put it).

Just... WHY?

I just don't get it. I've seen people saying stuff like that numerous
times on the boards and it just baffles my mind. Why on earth
would you drag a bag of dice with you everywhere you go?!

 

[Snoweel]

Two points-

1. An American friend I had in Sweden was amazed at the lack of social stratification in highschools in other parts of the world.

Both in Australia and Sweden (and I'm guessing the rest of Europe, judging by the anecdotes of people I've met), virtually everybody is a little bit geek, a little bit jock, a little bit dopehead (especially in Sydney), etc, etc, etc.

People are a lot less vilified for whichever stereotype they conform to (and I'm only going on what Americans have told me and what I've seen on Ricky Lake et al - it's "the natural order" for popular people to pick on unpopular people in American teen-culture), and in fact, here in Oz, bullies tend to be ganged up on by everybody else rather than worshipped or adored - Being an a$$hole is not cool, no matter how good you are.

So I think American geeks have it worse than geeks in other parts of the world (I'm not sure of the real reason behind this), and having "You are inferior and a victim" reinforced into your subconscious every day of your socially formative years can do horrible damage to your self-esteem and confidence.

2. I don't know if it's a chicken or egg thing, but I find geeks, as well as having the confidence knocked out of them by the time they hit sexual maturity, also tend to be largely disinterested in social dynamics and group politics.

I mean, there are some that may on a Saturday night, rue the fact that they're unpopular and don't know any chicks (I'm talking to guys here, because female geeks are never as socially isolated as male geeks), but on the whole, these geeks are far more interested in their hobbies than their social status.

Like I said, I don't know exactly which comes first - the lack of social nous or the lack of concern for such, but I'm sure it's ultimately a vicious circle.