E-Tools vs. PCGen

[DethStryke]

Alright, as near as I can tell, they are generally the same program... clearly housed by the same publishing company (Code Monkey).

So what's the difference? My understanding is that PCGen is superior, and the fact that it is free just makes it even better.

Thank you for any insight you can provide!

 

[trancejeremy]

AFAIK, they aren't the same program. E-tools was originally done by another company, but they bungled it so badly that WOTC hired Code Monkey to fix the problems (since they had experience with PCGen).

I really haven't used either one much - I bought etools when it came out and was disappointed with it - most of the upgrades/fixes for it seem to be pay, so I've never bothered. I've tried PCGen and found it to be too slow to be useable.

 

[DethStryke]

I do remember that timeline, but now Code Monkey has E-Tools... what, 3 years or more? It can't possibly be the same program, and I would imagine they would gut the original crap that Fluid had done...

Thank you for the info though, but I'm really looking for a current evaluation of both programs from experience... if that exists. :\

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I haven't used PCGen since a long time ago, but I can absolutely say they're not the same program. I'm a fan of E-Tools, which is basically the same program Fluid put out, but with a gazillion fixes. Code Monkey is planning on making a whole new program to replace it, and what I've heard does not fill me with anticiapation - quite frankly it sounds like they're making all of Fluids and Wizard's mistakes all over again.

I guess if I were starting now, I'd try PCGen first. With Code Monkey looking to move past E-Tools, it will become abandonware at some point, and then it will quickly fall behind in utility.

 

[Glyfair]

I really haven't used either one much - I bought etools when it came out and was disappointed with it - most of the upgrades/fixes for it seem to be pay, so I've never bothered.

Fixes are free, and not for pay. The data sets for additional programs are for pay, but that applies to PCGen, too (unless you create your own).

Code Monkey is planning on making a whole new program to replace it, and what I've heard does not fill me with anticiapation - quite frankly it sounds like they're making all of Fluids and Wizard's mistakes all over again.

I only have one complaint, but it's a major one. They are running it on java to make it cross-platform. That's what they did with PCGen, and when PCGen's performance slowed down to a crawl on my machine (so much so that it wasn't very usable). I have a faster machine now, but still avoid PCGen because of the performance.

I'll probably pick it up because I have loads of the sets for eTools, and the upgrade is free for the sets (although you'll have to pay for the new program). eTools just doesn't have the ability to handle certain things, and RPG Toolkit should be able to handle them.

 

[kingpaul]

I only have one complaint, but it's a major one. They are running it on java to make it cross-platform.

Umm...no.

http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=18
That's nice, how about some specifics now... like, What's it being coded in? Will it be fast on my computer? What about us Mac and *nix users?

First off, RPGT is being developed as a cross-platform program, so all you Mac and *nix users won't be left out in the cold any longer!

RPGT is being developed in C++ using QT for the user-interface and SQLite for database support. The combination of these three development tools allows us to on different operating systems, ensure that its performance is "zippy," and that it looks "pretty" (Being a subjective term, "pretty" is defined as "it doesn't look like a database access program.")

 

[kingpaul]

Alright, as near as I can tell, they are generally the same program... clearly housed by the same publishing company (Code Monkey).

Code Monkey Publishing does not produce PCGen. They create datasets that can be used with PCGen. PCGen produces PCGen.

So what's the difference? My understanding is that PCGen is superior, and the fact that it is free just makes it even better.

eTools is a Windows-only application, and uses Microsoft Access as its database. This program costs money. It comes with datasets for the 3.0 PHB, DMG and MM.

PCGen is a cross-platform program written in java. The datasets are text files. This program is free. It comes with numerous OGC datasets including the SRD, RSRD and MSRD.


CMP has a license with a number of companies to create datasets to sell for both eTools and PCGen.

 

[Glyfair]

Umm...no.

Sorry. I remembered the cross platform, and for some reason thought it was java.

I'll still be disappointed if there is a big performance hit.

 

[Guennarr]

Another reader with the choice: eTool or PCGen?

Hi everyone,

I read the answers so far, but I am still not feeling informed enough for choosing between both programmes. I did some research of my own before: Yes, Code Monkey Publishing (CMP) announces that they will publish a new programme replacing eTools. So I wonder how long until eTools really gets abandonware.

I realize that PCGen is developped as a freeware on sourceforge.net (a site exclusively for free software projects). It needs Java in order to run, so I guess that it is written in Java, too. I appreciate its usability on non-Windows PCs, I like that it is already "front loaded" with SRD content, but when I installed it one year ago, it was pretty slow on my pc, too. Worse, the handling wasn't that easy, and I was missing official WotC rule information (which isn't available for free for sure).

When I had a look at CMP, I realized that they offer rule sets for both programmes (for the same price each). Unfortunately both programmes seem to meet problems now and again: some rules aren't realized correctly in either programme (-> have a look at their forums, there are quite many contributions for both programmes, I guess this is the reason for the free updates, btw.). I guess that developping an eTool successor is their attempt to create a software that doesn't need as many fixes.

I also realized that the current version of PCGen is not supported yet by the data sets developped by CMP. So you see that I feel pretty torn between both programmes.

My questions for users of both programmes are:
1. What is the usuability like? (especially eTools in comparision to PCGen)

2. Which functions do both programmes offer?

3. Your experiences so far. Which programme would you recommend?

4. My main issue is quick development of PCs/ NPCs including rules from supplements. Is either programme up to this task?

Thank you really much in advance!
Installing either programme plus some datasets is quite an investment, so I am very eagerly looking forward to your replies!

Greetings from Cologne, Germany,
Günther

 

[Vascant]

Actually I am going to answer this from a different approach...Rather then pointing out flaws different programs may or may not have why not look at what you are asking for and finding what fits your needs..

Your primary desire seems to be from the DM's side of the table and being able to quickly generate NPCs and PCs with data from WotC official material (You may be asking for other publishers in which case, all opinions remain the same or worse).

PCGen and Etools are the only programs will WotC official material support, but I would not dare say either have the full power to generate NPCs without doing them pretty much by hand. If I have understood Paul correctly from a few threads, PCGen has some of the functionality but skills, feats and equipment still all need to be done by hand (I wonder about spell lists as well? I don't know) . ETools does not do this, it has pretty much everything you see in the DMG as far as NPC Generation goes. Now if you are willing to do all the work by hand, then either will work for you, if you are using a windows PC, again both work for you. While ETools may not be abandoned yet it is as good as it is going to get from what I have followed in threads, the last patch has been released. PCGen on the other hand is a moving target and seems someone is always working on it and even some reports that in the last few updates recently there have been some speed improvements.

On both sides of that coin you will find people who love either program or people who hate both. Me personally I do not hate, I just find both programs useless for my needs and created my own programs to handle those needs.

If you are willing to take some time, you may want to look at a third option. There are some other really decent d20 based programs available that allow you to create your own data, then you can put the IP protected data in yourself and have a decent program.