E6 -- I love it

[Bullgrit]

Tangential comment/question: I like the scale of E6 a lot better than that of standard 3e. How long have you been playing E6? Did you run up through the E6 levels, or start higher level?

I love E6 D&D3.

Basically, "Epic 6th level" means 6th level is the max class level. After reaching 6th level, every 5,000xp earns the character a bonus feat (instead of a level). The official E6 thread here at ENWorld has *A LOT* of extra rules to expand on the concept, but our game uses just the core rules. (We do have a few extra feats -- like getting more skill points or another spell known -- but not anything that pretends to increase the class level.)

Using just the core rules (PHB, DMG, MM), I absolutely love E6. It works perfectly, in my opinion. It simulates [I'm not a simulationist with my D&D] movie-type epic-level characters without getting into the superhero level stuff.

When I suggested our group try playing an E6 campaign, I used these analogies:
- Think of Gandalf in LotR as a 6th level mage (maybe with bonus feats -- does he do anything more powerful than 3rd-level spells?).
- Think of Achilles in the movie Troy as a 6th level fighter/barbarian (maybe with bonus feats).
- Think of the Spartans in the movie 300 as 4th-6th level fighters. Look what they can do to hordes of Level 1 warriors (trained) and commoners (conscripts).
Etc.

6th-level E6 characters are truly awe-inspiring heroes so long as you remember to don't keep scaling the threats in the world like you would in a 20th+ level D&D world.

For instance, our group defeated an Ancient Evil Undead Monster (morgh stats), the Titan of Damarcus (hill giant stats), the Great Dragon General (large blue dragon stats), and more. They also slew dozens of orcs and goblins in a mass battle. They've even literally been to Hell (just the first level) and fought off various fiends. (Just don’t tell the Players that the Great Dragon General is really just a juvenile blue dragon stats or that the fiendish warriors are bugbears with fire resistance and wings.)

All of that at 6th level, just by tweaking what "Epic" means in D&D. "Epic" isn't a level, it's the feel of the world and the fit of the PCs in that world. A couple of the Players had a difficult time getting the “6th-level = Epic” concept, but after a couple of adventures, especially with me and another Player (who got the concept early on) playing up the Epicness of our PCs, they have come to get the feel.

We decided to try the E6 concept with a new round-robin campaign. Each player DMs an adventure, in turn. We all started with epic 6th-level characters – I sold the concept as an easy way to plan adventures. A player can plan/create his adventure without wondering what level the PCs will be when it’s his turn to DM. And since some of the players in our group are not experienced D&D DMs, they don’t have to worry about handling high-level PCs.

We’ve been playing this campaign for almost a year – 7 adventures – and the only complaints I’ve heard are:
- There are some cool higher level stuff that we miss with stopping at 6th level.
- One DM says he can’t make humanoid/NPC enemies to challenge the PCs. (Can’t go above level 6, and can’t have every human enemy be an epic-level character.)

But the benefits are:
- The feel of epicness without the complications of high-level rules.
- We’re getting to try a lot of feats.
- The level is easy for an inexperienced DM to handle.
- The world is less complicated when you don’t have to remember there are high-level things around.

I think an E6 campaign, started from 1st level would work even better and feel even more Epic than like we did with starting the PCs at level 6.

Bullgrit

 

[lvl 1 fighter]

I love E6 D&D3.

I love the idea of E6. High level dnd turns into half adventure / half accounting. Bleh.

I'm starting my first E6 game here on the forums. Come check it out all you E6 fans. [E6]Adventure in the Swordlands

 

[kristov]

I think it is a very intersting concept - but I have no doubt I do not want to miss out on the other 24 levels of the game and the powers/abilities/magic items they offer.

Part of the reason I like D&D is because it is more of a treadmill game than others - meaning I kill monsters, I get loot, I get power, I kill more monsters.....etc. Or at least in my mind it is and I find that aspect of the game enjoyable. It isn't that I don't enjoy some other aspects of the game - but this is one I would not want to take away from it.

 

[lvl 1 fighter]

I like the higher level aspects of the game too. It's fun to be a 18th level Sorcerer and have all those powers. But for me it stops being fun when I have to think more of what the bad guys can do than what I get to do. It becomes a checklist.

Fly? check
Death Ward? check
Multiple sources/types of dealing damage? check

It gets tedious after awhile.

 

[S'mon]

I like the idea of E6 (or E8/10/12), but have not really had need of it. For the past 4 years or so of running 3e, C&C etc I've simply capped out NPC & PC levels at 10 or 12 rather than 20; which gives a setting not that much different to a typical D&D world, at least pre-3e. 12th level cap is good to include Liches, Magic Rings, +4 swords, and a bunch of other stuff without need for house ruling. It also allows for 6th level spells, so you get an OD&D feel (originally spells went only to 6th not 9th). And at my typical gaming rate of 2 games/month, ca 22 games/year, and 4 games to level up, it gives enough for 2 years of play without needing to E-it.

I can see though that for a more literary or cinematic feel E6 is likely to be a closer fit. Ganfalf as a 6th level Sorcerer certainly works.

Edit: Conversely though I've been running Labyrinth Lord based on B/X D&D, that's a game which works fine with levels 1-20+ due to the much shallower power gradient.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

I ran an E8 game that started at level 3. Worked just fine for me, it went about a year. I ended the game because I was moving, otherwise I'd probably still be running it.

The main thread has all kinds of extra stuff; I personally thought an awful lot of it was missing the point.

I personally went even simpler for my monsters and NPCs. Adamant used to sell product called Foe Factory Modern which boiled NPCs down to things like "Skills +5, Saves, +3" with the numbers changing based on the party level and how good the NPC was on a scale of 1-10.

Worked fine for the NPCs and I even messed around with using it for monsters.

People also like to whip out the 5th/6thlevel Gandalf thing. If it floats your boat, groovy. I personally got over Lord of the Rings a long time ago. I don't give a crap whether Gandalf was 5th level or 30th. I ran E6/E8 for simplicity and because I felt I didn't have to have 20 levels to make players feel like their characters were Big Damn Heroes.

A little bit of Mook rules and some flashy narration, and you're good to go.

The E8 game was my dive into GMing 3rd Ed and I personally don't expect I'll ever run a game that goes past 8th or 10th level. I don't see a point to it, and it's just way too much work. I learned a number of tricks and made my life easier with some groovy 3rd party products, but I don't see the payoff for anything beyond 8th level.

Something like the E6/E8 is nice because it reduces the workload for the GM and still gives the players extra bits to fiddle with.

I sat down once and figured it out...if you run an E6 game but get enough XP to have reached 20th level, E6 characters areactually functioning at about 10th level. I want to say it was something like 4 or 5 feats is worth a bump. Obviously they're not 10th levdl in terms of the damage they can take, but they've expanded the overall range of what their characters can do. In other words they're not more powerful, but they are more competent.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

I like the concept of E6, but haven't ran anything like that yet. I wouldn't mind giving it a try, but my players are power-hungry munchkins that need their 1-30 range and powers that don't run out at the moment.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thanks for reminding me about this friendly easy rules add-on!

In fact, I got to thinking, and can now present a E6 version for fourth edition!

Go check it out in the house rules forum:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/251717-4e6-e6-fourth-edition.html

 

[kitsune9]

I took a look at E6 too and liked it's presentation. For those people who like to keep their games at this level range, I think it will work well for them. For me, I've always ran my campaigns from 1st to 20+ level as that's what my players like so I passed on it.

Happy Gaming.

 

[Dragonblade]

As an aside, I don't think you need an E6 for 4e. In 3e, it was kind of needed for some DMs simply because not only does the math of 3e break down past 12th level or so, the gameplay itself radically changes. Perma-Fly, Save or Die, Scry-Teleport combos, Disjunction bombs, etc. It was more about superheroes. E6 allowed you to preserve that low level style game while still offering a carrot for the players in terms of giving them feats.

4e doesn't have that same problem. The math works to level 30, and the gameplay doesn't fundamentally change from level 1 to 30 like it does in 3e.

That said you could incorporate a couple of tweaks in 4e to achieve a similar effect to E6. For example, you could eliminate the half level advancement bonus from all PCs and monsters, you can nearly eliminate magic items by adding a +1 enhancement bonus to PCs every 5 levels, and so on. Those are tweaks that I would find much more satisfying as a player than limiting level advancement.

Just my thoughts. As always, YMMV.