Pathfinder 1E E7 and Extra [Class Feature] Feats

[Pheonix0114]

I'm in the process of setting up for a E7 Pathfinder Game and came across something that could be a breaking issue. The Extra feats, such as Extra Rage, Extra Rogue Talent, and Extra Arcane Pool, worry me as they allow some classes to gain abilities that I'm not sure classes like Fighters can keep up with. Extra Rogue Talent seems pretty safe, as Talents and Feats are of similar power levels, but things like Extra Rage could eventually be taken enough times to allow nearly unlimited use of the ability. Am I right to be paranoid? Or is this a non-issue? Also if it is too powerful, what sort of limits should I set on taking them?

Also, I am allowing Capstone Feats to gain most (if not all, haven't looked entirely yet) of the 8th level class features, I just wanted to keep full BAB classes as the only iterative attack characters.

 

[TwoSix]

I would have to look at all of the "Extra" feats, but I don't see a real problem.

The "rounds/day" structure of the Barbarian Rage means that Extra Rage is going to have a lot of diminishing marginal returns. After the first two or three times you take the feat, it's just giving you rage for rounds where the battle is functionally over anyway.

 

[Pheonix0114]

How so? A barbarian can end their rage as a free action unless there is errata in that. It seems that eventually a barbarian would be able to rage every fight as long as there was downtime between the fights equal to double the length of the previous fight.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[TwoSix]

Well, that's what I mean. In Pathfinder, you can already rage every fight, assuming a normal distribution of encounters. Optimally, you rage at the time when you can do the most damage. The rounds you're gaining from the feat will then be rounds that aren't quite as useful.

It's not as obvious the first time you take the feat, but if you take it 3 or 4 times, you'll find out you have more rage than you really needed.

Oh, and the PF barbarian is not balanced on the assumption that he can't rage every fight. They wouldn't have switched to rounds/day if they wanted to barbarian to only rage 1/day.

 

[Pheonix0114]

Ok, so Barbarian I can let slide unless I see it somehow become overpowered in play. What about some of the others? I'm especially worried about Extra Arcane Pool, Extra Lay on Hands, and Extra Evolution.

 

[TwoSix]

Maybe just a blanket rule that you can only take them (1 or 2 or 3) times. Or you have to space them out, say, you can only take it a second time at level 7 + 5 feats, the third time at level 7 + 10 feats, etc.

Just out of curiosity, why E7 and not the more standard E6? Or E8, which would seem to fit well with the 8th level capstones PF has?

 

[Pheonix0114]

I all came down to BAB really. At E6 3/4 classes are only one higher than 1/2 classes, and at E8 3/4 classes have an iterative attack which I wanted to avoid. And yeah, I'll probably do the spacing thing and if anyone plays a fighter I'll be super-watchful to make sure they aren't eclipsed.

 

[arkive]

It's not absolute, it's relative. Is the feat better than the other feats that could have been taken?

My usual standard is Improved Initiative. If Extra whatever is worse, then you don't need to worry.

Personally, in all of these cases, I'd take things like Improved Initiative first, followed by feats which need 3rd level spell casting, or +6 BAB.

 

[Pheonix0114]

Well I'm hoping this game will take off and last a while, so I was looking more into the long run where everyone has those picks but some classes can keep taking Extra [Class Feature] while Fighters eventually run out of good choices. But I think I might be worrying too much about something that might not even be a problem. If it does seem to be, I might look at various fighter archetypes and allow a fighter to take those as feats.

EDIT: Welcome to ENworld!

 

[TwoSix]

I all came down to BAB really. At E6 3/4 classes are only one higher than 1/2 classes, and at E8 3/4 classes have an iterative attack which I wanted to avoid. And yeah, I'll probably do the spacing thing and if anyone plays a fighter I'll be super-watchful to make sure they aren't eclipsed.

If it makes your decision any easier, at level 6 full BAB classes are still 2 ahead of 3/4 classes. (+6 compared to +4).

The problem with breaking at odd levels is that it strongly favors the prepared casting classes over the spontaneous classes, since they're now one spell level ahead.