D&D 5E Easy Berserker Barbarian fix

[Flamestrike]

"Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, for the duration of your rage you can make a single melee weapon attack as a bonus action on each of your turns after this one. When your rage ends, you suffer one level of exhaustion unless you succeed in a DC 15 Constitution saving throw. While in your frenzy you ignore the effects of five or less levels of exhaustion."

Thoughts?

 

[Xeviat]

"Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, for the duration of your rage you can make a single melee weapon attack as a bonus action on each of your turns after this one. When your rage ends, you suffer one level of exhaustion unless you succeed in a DC 15 Constitution saving throw. While in your frenzy you ignore the effects of five or less levels of exhaustion."

Thoughts?

I'm more tempted to go back to the drawing board and make sure what they gain at that level is worth a feat.

The Battle Ranger always gets a bonus action 1d4+Str attack as a bonus action while raging. The Berserker gets 1/day a full extra attack as a bonus action while raging. The Berserker ability is better when they use it, but is it better enough?

Then, the Battle Rager ability is worth about half of the Polearm Master feat, so it's not even worth a full feat. Thus, the Berserker ability probably isn't worth a whole feat.

I don't like the random nature of having a saving throw.

 

[Flamestrike]

I'm more tempted to go back to the drawing board and make sure what they gain at that level is worth a feat.

The Battle Ranger always gets a bonus action 1d4+Str attack as a bonus action while raging. The Berserker gets 1/day a full extra attack as a bonus action while raging. The Berserker ability is better when they use it, but is it better enough?

Then, the Battle Rager ability is worth about half of the Polearm Master feat, so it's not even worth a full feat. Thus, the Berserker ability probably isn't worth a whole feat.

Your conclusion doesnt make sense.

An extra attack dealing 1d12+str+rage that can take advantage of GWMs -5/+10 and all the other juicy barbarian abilities is worth more than 1d4+same. Big dice are better with brutal critical, it plays nice with GWS for barbs that M/C, magic weapons help it and the main action attacks cause they're the same weapon etc

If there was a feat that gave great weapon fighters the ability to make an extra attack each round, they'd take it.

I don't like the random nature of having a saving throw.

I do. As the barbarian gets more rages, his chances of resisting exhaustion get better. It makes Frenzy a gamble to use.

 

[Lanliss]

I am just going to make it so the Berserker barb gets rid of a level of exhaustion on a short rest. About as simple as it can get, and gives them 3/day without any extra baggage. Might even make it so they remove all levels on a long rest, so they can really go Berserk if they feel like it.

EDIT: Thinking about it, all levels might be a bit much. Maybe only 3 levels on a long rest, so a normal day of 2 short/1 long will let them Frenzy 5 times and not have any Exhaustion left over.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

The issue with that is that days actually matter in my campaigns. If the barbarian has 3 levels of exhaustion, even if he can rage up and ignore them, that's still 3 long rests to get him back in the game, long after everyone else has replenished their hp and everything.

 

[dropbear8mybaby]

The problem with Frenzy goes way deeper and can't be solved by hacking it to keep it true to its original design intent, that of a counter-balance to a powerful ability. It's the same mentality that led to GWM and SS in the first place and, worse, runs against the stated design philosophy of the edition during the playtest period.

Nope, it needs a complete rewrite. Wholesale replacement is the only solution. As is with much of the niggling little problems like this in the system. Honestly, I wish they'd focus on it rather than all the awful UA content we saw thrown up at as recently.

 

[SmokeyCriminal]

"Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can go into a frenzy when you rage. If you do so, for the duration of your rage you can make a single melee weapon attack as a bonus action on each of your turns after this one. When your rage ends, you suffer one level of exhaustion unless you succeed in a DC 15 Constitution saving throw. While in your frenzy you ignore the effects of five or less levels of exhaustion."

Thoughts?

A save for exhaustion sounds pretty cool. Plus a Con saving throw is something you always do in every other aspect of the game where you might get a level of exhaustion (is there another example where you automatically gain a level in exhaustion in the game other then Frenzy?), so it makes sense. But you have to keep in mind that a Barb is going to pass it more often then not, and even more often as he levels up. Also you'll start to see things like getting Bardic Inspiration and Bless right before the fight ends so he can use them on his Frenzy save. If your ok with that then its no big deal.

Ignoring the effects of exhaustion when you rage I don't think is a good idea. Thematically I can see the appeal, but there's a lot of whiplash to it. Barb starts a fight with 3Lvls of exhaustion, his turn comes up, rages, its gone. He loses rage, he has 3 Lvl of exhaustion, he rages, its gone. Also how would Lvl 4 exhaustion work? he has half max point maximum, he rages, he has full max hit point maximum but only half HP? I guess that's not too weird.

But the only thing that I don't like about it will be the stuff that happens outside of combat. things like Barb needs to make a check like insight/survival/persuasion or whatever, and they decide to go into a rage before they do it, which would be RAW. It's true that it burns a resource and it creates hilarious things like 'rage investigations' or 'rage Medicine' checks, and even kinda appropriate 'rage intimidation' or 'rage performance' checks. But it feel a little TOO loophole-y, and to write in a patch starts to make it too complicated for my taste.

Consider, instead of 'While in frenzy you ignore..." Something more general and simple like "You Ignore any Effects from Exhaustion that would give Disadvantage"

 

[Flamestrike]

But you have to keep in mind that a Barb is going to pass it more often then not, and even more often as he levels up.

At 1st level assuming a Con of 14 (it should range between 12-16) its a +4 save so 11+ needed. 50/50 chance.

At 10th level assuming Con 16 its +7 (meaning an 8+ needed). 65 percent.

At 17th level with Con 20 its a 4+ or better or 85 percent.

Also you'll start to see things like getting Bardic Inspiration and Bless right before the fight ends so he can use them on his Frenzy save. If your ok with that then its no big deal.

Both resources that could be used elsewhere. Im OK with this.

A player in my game is constantly trying to use guidance whenever the DM calls for a skill check (even on perception checks to notice things as we walk along). As a fellow player, I had to tell him to stop. Unless its obvious in game that the PC needed guidance, then its immersion wrecking gamism to even suggest it.

But the only thing that I don't like about it will be the stuff that happens outside of combat. things like Barb needs to make a check like insight/survival/persuasion or whatever, and they decide to go into a rage before they do it, which would be RAW.

This gets me back to the guidance thing above. Entering rage, to get a bonus to perception assumes your character knows you're making a perception check at that moment. Its metagaming of the highest degree. I mean you're walking down a road, and then you burst into rage for no other reason than the DM calls for a perception check, or a survival check.

You make a survival check to represent hours worth of navigation or foraging. The perception check is made to notice something that you dont know is there, so you cant rage in response to it to improve your chances of noticing it. Most skill checks are the same. Int checks to know something, Insight and perception checks etc.

Putting that aside, I have no problem with a barbarian raging to improve his chances to smash down a door (no penalty to Str checks), Intimidate someone (no penalty to Cha checks) tumble (Dex checks) etc. Most active skills its entirely appropriate.

Plus if you're desperate it means your barbarian isnt shut out of everything barring combat (social and exploration pillars) on account of frenzy.

And what barbarian in their right mind is going to do this anyway? Raging to pass a skill check? I mean there are rogues for those things.

It's true that it burns a resource and it creates hilarious things like 'rage investigations' or 'rage Medicine' checks, and even kinda appropriate 'rage intimidation' or 'rage performance' checks. But it feel a little TOO loophole-y, and to write in a patch starts to make it too complicated for my taste.

There's no loophole. No DM would allow it.

 

[Corwin]

...Constitution saving throw...

So basically that would make paladins a berserker's best friend?

 

[Flamestrike]

So basically that would make paladins a berserker's best friend?

Fine by me.

You can have the DC increase by five each subsequent save.