"Edited" by Moldvay. "Edited" by Cook. But who WROTE it?

[Chainsaw Mage]

Okay, this other thread on BECMI got me thinking about something that used to puzzle me back in the day. The Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert rules (what we old timers loving call "B/X D&D" and what I have always just called "Expert D&D"--since Expert of course includes the use of Basic) are, according to the credits, "Edited" by Tom Moldvay (basic) and David Zeb Cook (expert).

Who WROTE them, though?

There are only two options I can think of:

1. The text is essentially a massaged (i.e. "edited") version of OD&D, written by Gygax and Arneson. (I don't have OD&D, and never had the pleasure of reading it, so I can't comment if this is true).

2. The text IS, in fact, written by Moldvay and Cook, but for legal reasons (or whatever) they were required to use the term "Edited" instead of "Written".

Not sure how Mentzer's BECMI fits into this (used to own the Rules Cyclopedia, but don't anymore--does it too say "Edited" by Mentzer?).

And although I am somewhat aware of some legal wranglings between EGG's AD&D and the "just plain D&D" line, I don't know much about what happened.

Discuss.

 

[rogueattorney]

The words and phrasings used to express the rules in the Moldvay and Cook/Marsh books were by and large original to those particular sets. Obviously, the concepts and the rules themselves (i.e. fighters have d8 hp per level and that sort of thing) arose from previous works by previous authors/editors.

I believe that the Moldvay edited Basic book was largely written by Tom Moldvay. I think that if you look at subsequent works by Moldvay (Lords of Creation, for example) you'll see a similar authorial voice.

Similarly, I think that the Cook/Marsh edited Expert book was written in some degree of collaboration between Zeb Cook and Steve Marsh. I've heard that much of the grunt work (the physical writing) was done by Marsh and that his name was added to the work as editor for that reason, but I also detect a lot of "Zeb-isms" that would find their way into 2e and other Cook-authored products later on.

Subsequent to the Moldvay/Cook/Marsh books, the Mentzer and later products often took passages word-for-word from the Moldvay/Cook/Marsh books. This didn't happen in the previous translations from OD&D > Holmes or Holmes > Moldvay.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

From what I've red on the Holmes edition (wish I had a link handy), Holmes essentially set out to write up an easier-to-understand version of the OD&D rules, and clear up the confusion between that set and Chainmail (which had the combat rules). It was intended to help bring in new players and transition them to "D&D" (later AD&D) ... hence "Basic". So the original writers were still Gygax & Arneson, if edited/interpreted by Holmes.

Moldvay re-edited the Holmes Basic Set. Much of the language and voice is of course unique, but since the basic work was still pretty much Gygax-derived, I suspect "edited" is the right term.

 

[howandwhy99]

Authorship is still a contentious term. Editors, proofreaders, translators, and the like are all changing text. Pragmatically speaking, the author is the originator of some central ideas expressed with the others changing this only slightly.

This is why even typesetters are considered co-creators on a work and even the booking machine engineers as fellow storytellers.

 

[rogueattorney]

I am hardly an expert on the print business, but from what I understand, "editor" is a fairly nebulous term, not unlike "producer" in the music business.

There are producers that only twiddle a few nobs at the direction of the artist. There are producers that write and perform a huge swath of the music committed to tape. There are producers that handle things completely differently depending on which artist they are working with at the time.

 

[havard]

I seem to recall Frank Mentzer suggesting that TSR insisted on using the title editor from Molvay and on because they were worried about any future royalties claims after Arneson.

-Havard

 

[Thunderfoot]

I am hardly an expert on the print business, but from what I understand, "editor" is a fairly nebulous term, not unlike "producer" in the music business.

There are producers that only twiddle a few nobs at the direction of the artist. There are producers that write and perform a huge swath of the music committed to tape. There are producers that handle things completely differently depending on which artist they are working with at the time.

Actually I can give empirical data for you here (I am both a producer and audio engineer). Engineers 'twiddle' the knobs (fine tune the audio, adjust the gain of each channel, etc.), producers are the "honing stone' of a project. A producer can do any/all/none of the things you suggested and are usually the primary financial interest of the project as well.

As for editors, I hear they are much like producers, as you stated.

 

[Aplus]

Yes, they are considered edited versions, or restatements of OD&D by Gygax/Arneson. While you can hold Holmes and OD&D side-by-side and see that they are very similar, by the time you get to Moldvay, the similarities are few and far between, with the exception of saving throw charts and the other crunchy bits.

Definitely get a copy of OD&D and read it some time. It's totally crazy and nonsensical in an awesome sort of way. Once you have a look, you'll see why it needed some "editing".

 

[havard]

Definitely get a copy of OD&D and read it some time. It's totally crazy and nonsensical in an awesome sort of way. Once you have a look, you'll see why it needed some "editing".

I think Tim Kask suggested that they were so into the war gamer mentality when writing the rules that they didnt consider that many of the things wouldnt make any sense to anyone coming from a non-war gamer background.

-Havard

 

[Ed_Laprade]

I think Tim Kask suggested that they were so into the war gamer mentality when writing the rules that they didnt consider that many of the things wouldnt make any sense to anyone coming from a non-war gamer background.

-Havard

That makes sense, as they only expected to sell it to wargamers. Who else was there? (Fantasy fans, of course, but they appearently didn't think many would be interested.)