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Edition Love

khyron1144

First Post
I have noticed two unusual trends among roleplayers.
Some feel absolute loyalty to the edition of system X
that was current at the time they started palying system
X regardless of its flaws. Others display the same
devotion to the current edition of system X regardless of
its flaws.
I have noticed that I am in the first category. As a for
instance, I started playing RPGs with AD&D 2nd edition.
I perceive every difference between 2nd edition and the
current one as a flaw with 3rd edition.
The same goes for V:tM. I came in during second and I
haven't bought the main rulebook for Revised yet
because while some differences strike me as good,
too many of them seem to make it no longer the game I
loved.
Does anybody agree with my insights into the RPG
community or am I an idiot full of sound and fury whose
ideas mean absolutely nothing?
 
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Airwolf

First Post
I don't know if every gamer fits into those two categories. I play a game because I have fun playing. If I had started playing 3E, for example, and wasn't having fun I would have gone back to 2nd edition.

I think any edition, no matter how well thought out, will have some flaws. Of course using the word 'flaw' is highly subjective. Just because I think something is wrong with the ‘new’ edition doesn't mean that everyone thinks it is.

When RPGs cease being fun to play is when I will quit playing.

Just my thoughts.
 

BOZ

Creature Cataloguer
that's a pretty good topic. i tend to play whatever's current. but, i do have something of a nostalgia for 2E - like you, i started gaming with that system. there's a lot in 3E that i feel "fixed" the "flaws" of previous editions - but i am definitely not one that wants to throw out the baby with the bathwater, even if certain unnamed 3E designers are. ;)
 

boxstop7

First Post
I respectfully dissent. The majority of gamers I've come across don't have an allegiance either way. Each 'edition' has some great aspects and some flaws. Nothing is perfect, which is why these systems are designed as a famework that allows us (the gamers) to adjust that framework to fit our specific desires. IMHO, a 'perfect' system would take all the fun and creativity out of developing a complex world where people interact in a variety of ways, and no two of those worlds are alike. The 'editions' simply give us all a common thread with which to work. It's up to us to take that thread and run with it.

Just my overly-philosophical two cents. :)

~Box
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
A lot of it has to do with the satisfaction of your gaming group with the edition you started with. If you were VERY satisfied with it, and it met your needs 99% of the time, chances are you have no need to change. Everything new seems unnecessary.

On the other hand, we have groups who ran into difficulties with the previous rules-set, or were never exposed to it in the first place. Their impressions of these difficulties, and how they handled them, influenced their view of that edition.

The reason many gamers (I hazard to say most of the D&D gaming community) switched to 3E upon its release was because they perceived that 3E solved many problems they had with previous editions of the game. Whether it was a series of minor irritiations, or whole subsystems (such as multiclassing), they perceived greater value in the newer system, and switched as such.

Other players did not see the value in the codifying and standardization of all of the rules, or see the value in the different approaches to things such as saving throws, multiclassing, character classes and unified XP tables, standardizing hit point gains from 1st to 20th level, etc. These things changed the "feel" of D&D, and as such hurt its viability to them.

For instance, with the layered multiclassing system, feats, and the skill system, the traditional fantasy archetypes of D&D (Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Thief) were weakened in favor of introducing more heterogeneity in PC's. A character takes far more to be described mechanically now than before. All these things detract for a fan of 1E or 2E from the beauty of simplicity in the AD&D system. (Anyone from the Dragonsfoot forums who posts here feel free to correct me if I have these basic ideas wrong.)

A fan of 3E, however, will look at these same mechanics, and prefer the shades of gradation present in characters available now, and the unified rules on doing this.

In 1E, you make a basic character, and work with your DM if you want something unique or "cool" in his quiver of powers. The DM adjusts your abilities or XP chart accordingly, and goes on. Far less rules needed, but your effectiveness versus the other players' characters is mainly determined by the experience of the DM.

In 3E, the only thing you need to do is pick the appropriate cool ability from the Player's handbook plus supplements allowed, then show the final product to the DM, who approves or denies it. Among the core books at least, the consistency of the feats, skills, and class abilities are such that 99% of all character options are well balanced, and the DM has to do less work on ensuring that his players' PC's are all within the same range of relative power. The goal of 3E was to constrain the min/maxer's top end of power to a certain limit, and let the DM concentrate on his campaign.

---------------------------------

In practice, many people have found many different results. One poster, Flexor the Mighty (Hi, Flex!) has found that the new rules actually hamper his productivity with degrees of complexity. Having been used to the simpler set of combat rules in 1E, he was used to spicing up his action scenes with drama and creative interpretation of the results of dice rolls and player actions. Feats and skills, rather that freeing him, have complicated the picture badly for him. (Flex, if I misunderstand your position on this, please sound off.)

In the end, the same rules apply. (1) Your experience with the system determines your comfort with it. (2) If the existing system has worked well in the past, there is little incentive to change. People often find it bizarre to hear someone in the computer technology industry to say this, but "newer" doesn't always mean "better."

In my case and 3E, however, it does. :)
 

Balgus

First Post
then there are people who play system X in all its forms, thinking that there are fllaws and high points in each of its many incarnations.

I had a DM like that. He played 2e, AD&D and 3e. He thinks there are great points of all three- and would talk about how great it would be if someone had brought that over to the current edition. But then he knows that the current editions had its great points that he was glad that they changed from the old rules...
 

Victim

First Post
Henry, I'm sorry but you are too rational and fair-minded to be allowed on the Internet. We'll miss you. :)

I can have fun playing most games. Right now, I'm playing both version of AD&D and running a 3e game. I enjoy them all. I find the mechanics of 3e more pleasing, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy running around with my 2e fighter mage, killing giants and humiliting the human paladin and fighter. Since I play the game to have fun, all 3 editions are a success in that regard.
 

diaglo

Adventurer
Original (1974) D&D is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

okay, now i said that. i play whatever my group wants. i keep current with all the editions.

i prefer and will continue to prefer (b/c to me the other editions are worse) the Original D&D game. but i also started with that one. i was upset when the group switched to 1ed ADnD. i left after we tried out 2ed. i'm currently playing 3ed. but only b/c i can't convince anyone to play OD&D. not that i'm really trying. i barely have time to make a session.
 

Fenes 2

First Post
I started with Shadowrun 1E. When 2E came out I switched and never looked back. When 3E came out I switched, kept a few house rules, and never looked back. The house rules were reduced further when we started a new campaign.

I started with AD&D 2E. 2.5E, i.e. Player's Options: Skills & Powers never made it to my table - I bought all the books, but never used them after reading through and discarding them. When 3E came I switched and never looked back.

Can't say I am nostalgic - with new editions I usually check if they are better suited to my needs than the current editions,a nd then switch. But mainly I aim to get my own set of rules and house rules that fits my style as close to perfect as possible. If something does not fit - like the 3E magic item proliferation - it gets discarded.
 

CTD

First Post
I don't find either of those two choices to fit me.

I started with 'red box' D&D. Ran through a few of the boxes before migrating to 1E AD&D, grumbled a year in resistance before trying out 2E and finding that I enjoyed it, and then dropped it like a hot potato when 3E came out.

Every step of the way I enjoyed the game. I loved red box D&D. I moved to 'advanced' because it offered rules and concepts that were new and exciting. I moved to 2E because I liked how proficiencies were handled, and tweaks like specialists for wizardry. I dashed with glee to 3E because 2E was a cluttered mess that was hard to DM (everyone I met played 2E in fundamentally different ways due to the huge volume of option books that changed everything about the game to it's core in different ways). 3E happens to be my favorite edition. Old D&D is #2, then 1E and lastly 2E.

Still, I've also ran other systems the entire time. GUPRS, Hero, Vampire, Traveller, Twilight 2000, Cuthulu, etc. I enjoy gaming for the fun of it, so I am not totally loyal to one system. Admittedly it is far easier to run a 3E D&D game than anything else, because of brand acceptance, but I am not against other games and check them out from time to time.

So I'm loyal to nothing, and practical to the extreme. 3E is the hottest thing out there. Putting a game together is easy. So I do it. I also enjoy it to a great degree. The only system I'm happy to have put down is 2E. It did not hold up for me, other than Birthright.

Interesting question thoguh. Many do fit your two categories, but not so many as you might think.
 

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