Edition warring is for chumps, but isn't D&D specific

[Fobok]

And of course just saying anything negative got the 4E fans enraged and vice versa. That is the root of all edition wars. That fans get over protective and take other people not linking their edition personally. It is like they take it as they play the game wrong.

That is definitely part of the problem, but I'd say the root of edition warring is, in fact, the common belief that one's own opinion is the only correct opinion. Anybody disagrees, well, they must be stupid or shills.


This also leads to the worst part of edition warring, when people actually insult each other for liking the edition they don't. I've seen new players driven away from gaming altogether by the sheer hostility of other gamers for daring to pick the wrong edition as their starting point, even if the old edition isn't for sale anywhere.


This isn't limited to RPG editions. It's the source of just about every type of fan war. Xbox versus PlayStation, Marvel versus DC, PC versus console. Heck, sometimes there's even no versus. I have been repeatedly and viciously insulted for liking the Star Wars prequels, even when I agree the original trilogy is better.


Then there's the other half of the equation, those of us who don't think this way, but have been insulted for our opinions so many times that it becomes instinct to think someone that disagrees with us is insulting us. That's where the protectiveness you mention comes in, I believe.


Edition wars, and fan wars in general, would be a lot less serious if people on both sides of this equation would recognize this in themselves and tried to empathize more with others. I know I try. Sometimes I fail, and get drawn into the arguments, but a lot less often now than I used to.

 

[Elf Witch]

That is definitely part of the problem, but I'd say the root of edition warring is, in fact, the common belief that one's own opinion is the only correct opinion. Anybody disagrees, well, they must be stupid or shills.


This also leads to the worst part of edition warring, when people actually insult each other for liking the edition they don't. I've seen new players driven away from gaming altogether by the sheer hostility of other gamers for daring to pick the wrong edition as their starting point, even if the old edition isn't for sale anywhere.


This isn't limited to RPG editions. It's the source of just about every type of fan war. Xbox versus PlayStation, Marvel versus DC, PC versus console. Heck, sometimes there's even no versus. I have been repeatedly and viciously insulted for liking the Star Wars prequels, even when I agree the original trilogy is better.


Then there's the other half of the equation, those of us who don't think this way, but have been insulted for our opinions so many times that it becomes instinct to think someone that disagrees with us is insulting us. That's where the protectiveness you mention comes in, I believe.


Edition wars, and fan wars in general, would be a lot less serious if people on both sides of this equation would recognize this in themselves and tried to empathize more with others. I know I try. Sometimes I fail, and get drawn into the arguments, but a lot less often now than I used to.

These are all excellent points. I would also add that some of this is the need to win the argument. I see that a lot on internet forums that and the stirring up the drama because it is amusing for them.

 

[Spellknight]

Everytime I wonder if I'm missing out on anything by not joining any social media sites such as Facebook, something like this comes along and puts my mind at ease.

Amen!

Ah. Of these I care little. Mind you, I would have probably hated "nanites" on principle.
One person who wants to play a rigger wants to take some decking skills to take over other drone systems, but I think I have to walk through how difficult that is to do to see if it is worth the effort for her - to really fully own a drone takes several marks, which can be several rounds of action.

I've noticed the same thing. Because its still in its own world its still not really "together" with the rest of the team.
Me, I say just give the Decker a Weapon of some kind & shoot things like the rest of the group.

Not sure what the problem between Shadowrun 3E and 4E players was. I guess it had something to do with the new matrix.

Probably because it was a huge change to how things worked.
1-2 was small. 2-3 almost nothing. But 3-4 basically created a new game.

 

[Derren]

Probably because it was a huge change to how things worked.
1-2 was small. 2-3 almost nothing. But 3-4 basically created a new game.

Not wanting to find excuses, but Shadowrun is also in a tight spot as the reality is overtaking the fiction. Sure, the wired matrix is iconic for cyberpunk, but how many people will accept it as being the future when the current technology already features wireless net access everywhere? Sure, you do not have a neural interface, but the problem is still there.
So Shadowrun has to walk a tight line between keeping it Cyberpunk at going with real world technology.

Another problem is that Catalyst is apparently not doing a very good job with editing and playtesting which also causes a lot of resentment.

 

[carmachu]

Not wanting to find excuses, but Shadowrun is also in a tight spot as the reality is overtaking the fiction. Sure, the wired matrix is iconic for cyberpunk, but how many people will accept it as being the future when the current technology already features wireless net access everywhere? Sure, you do not have a neural interface, but the problem is still there.
So Shadowrun has to walk a tight line between keeping it Cyberpunk at going with real world technology.

Another problem is that Catalyst is apparently not doing a very good job with editing and playtesting which also causes a lot of resentment.

The second part is the real problem. Folks can do alot of things, believe alot of things- technology advanaces, etc.....

But the reality is that the CGL does a HORRIBLE job editing, playtesting and doesnt even use the feedback it pays folks to test out and put in. I've been a huge SR fan forever, and I can suspend belief for alot of things. Even things that arent that believable- sentient nanos for example(which is just a variation on Bug spirits, Sheldom and others used over the years). But the shoddy quality that comes out of CGL book wise, for the price they are charging, is unacceptable.

Ultimately, while I dont like the direction the fluff is going, their crap quality of editing and not using playtested or edited items, is what has killed my interest in the game, 5th wise. I'll just go back to 4th or 3rd most likely and use what I like.

Its especially galling when you compare shadowrun crappy quality to the battletech good quality.

 

[Umbran]

Not wanting to find excuses, but Shadowrun is also in a tight spot as the reality is overtaking the fiction.

I don't think so. Reality overtook the original fiction. The genre (and Shadowrun) has adapted - largely for the better in terms of play, without really impacting the fiction flavor significantly.

In my opinion, of course.

 

[Umbran]

I've noticed the same thing. Because its still in its own world its still not really "together" with the rest of the team.

Having been running the game for several sessions now, I find this isn't generally true. My party's decker doesn't spend a lot of time in another world, but is still functional.

Most of the physical tech around has wireless aspects - extra minor abilities the user gets if they turn on wireless access. But that means the decker can muck with the real-world items: can reach out to the samurai's submachine gun and turn it into a useless brick. The decker's information gathering capacity no longer required very detailed runs deep into major architectures. And several other small changes make the decker work more smoothly, overall.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Just an anecdote for y'all...

I had the first session of a new Shadowrun campaign I'm starting back on Saturday - just the Quick Start rules and pregen characters to start with, to give some players who have never seen the game a feel for the system before we went into character generation. The campaign is going to be based on the new 5th edition rules, because I was given them as a gift for X-mas.

After the session, one of my players went to Facebook to ask if any of her friends had a copy of the rules she could borrow, as she's on a bit of a tight budget.

Within *minutes*, she had folks commenting that she should burn the 5th edition book, or if she didn't have it, she should download the quickstart rules, and burn them instead. She was told, by no means should she spend money on 5th edition Shadowrun.

When she told her "friends" that really, she didn't care what rules she was playing under - she hadn't had tabletop gaming in her life for some years (she had a baby), and was just happy to be playing anything, and could they please just pack it in with the negativity, she was told, "No, I can only promise to bitch in a more entertaining fashion."

So, there you have it - D&D is not the only game about which people are jerks.

Those responses don't sound like what I would expect from "friends", especially the "bitch in a more entertaining fashion" (assuming it was serious). I'd be questioning whether said person was really my friend or not.

 

[SamVDW]

Just an anecdote for y'all...

I had the first session of a new Shadowrun campaign I'm starting back on Saturday - just the Quick Start rules and pregen characters to start with, to give some players who have never seen the game a feel for the system before we went into character generation. The campaign is going to be based on the new 5th edition rules, because I was given them as a gift for X-mas.

After the session, one of my players went to Facebook to ask if any of her friends had a copy of the rules she could borrow, as she's on a bit of a tight budget.

Within *minutes*, she had folks commenting that she should burn the 5th edition book, or if she didn't have it, she should download the quickstart rules, and burn them instead. She was told, by no means should she spend money on 5th edition Shadowrun.

When she told her "friends" that really, she didn't care what rules she was playing under - she hadn't had tabletop gaming in her life for some years (she had a baby), and was just happy to be playing anything, and could they please just pack it in with the negativity, she was told, "No, I can only promise to bitch in a more entertaining fashion."

So, there you have it - D&D is not the only game about which people are jerks.

I love the Shadowrun world, but the game mechanics have slowly gotten more bogged down over time.

I think the game is great if you have a group that loves a ridiculous amount of "crunch" in their game system. The players and game master have to love looking up and obsessing over rules and modifiers. Unfortunately for me, it is one of those things that I loved when I started roleplaying but have slowly graduated away from. I come to have fun with friends and tell a great story, not check several different books to see what type of modifiers I get for shooting from high-ground, with a scope, in the dark, against an enemy with 25% cover.

 

[Umbran]

I love the Shadowrun world, but the game mechanics have slowly gotten more bogged down over time.

Except for how 5e has unbogged a great deal of it. I wouldn't call it "light" by any means, but it hasn't been a monotonic descent into madness.

I come to have fun with friends and tell a great story, not check several different books to see what type of modifiers I get for shooting from high-ground, with a scope, in the dark, against an enemy with 25% cover.

So, you do what I do.... Don't look them up.

In 5e, here's a limit on the overall effectiveness of the character anyway (f'rex: weapons have accuracy limits, such that you can't get more than so many successes on a roll), so after a certain point, the effort to get it exactly right sees diminishing returns. You get much the same result if you just don't worry about *all* the details - just use the most prominent ones, and you wind up okay. Do this for both PCs and NPCs, and it works out just fine.