Kae'Yoss
First Post
So it came to be that the new player had made his character:
His stats had to be corrected repeatedly during (and after) character creation - it seems his other group used 3.0 instead of 3.5, and even then changed - or misunderstood - a great deal of rules*. Plus, he didn't bother to ask about house rules - and of course, he'd complain about most of them when he learned about them.*
So, his character was done. In a party of characters that ranged from good to exalted, he managed to put a half-orc barbarian/fighter. Of course, Int and Cha had no points put into them. Evil minds would think him a powergamer, but he had said before that he didn't like min-maxing, so it can't be.
Now, the session was underway, the party had been ambushed by a group of assassins (not the PrC) sent to deal with them specifically (yes, I felt I had to use the dark mirror scenario, and most characters had someone who had more or less the same role as them - only accomplished using different means: The warmage had a wilder, the warlock eldritch blaster had a soulknife shooter and so on)
the room being partially divided by the party warmage's blade barrier (from the previous battle), and one "spellslinger" who kept blasting the crap out of them while eluding the punishment her fellow assassins were receiving (elude touch and vigor are a nice combo against warlocks and warmages with a love of disintegrate), the stupid, ugly half-orc decided to grapple the "caster" and hold her face in front of the blade barrier to threaten her (a quite cunning move for a stupid half-orc, mind you).
So she ignored his threats and "cast something".
DM: "She seems to disregard your warnings, as your mind is assaulted by something. Make a will save."
Orc: (rolls) "nothing much"
DM: "Bad for you, as you get (rolls) 14 damage."
Orc: "If it's nothi..."
DM: "To your CHARISMA!"
From
-sure, cunning strategist (with Int and Cha 6 each) to catatonic vegetable in one fell swoop!
The best part about this: I never intended to give her the ego whip to attack this character, as the character - the player, even - wasn't part of the group when I designed that encounter. It just worked too well.
Since his playing style differs from our own, and he seemed not to like how I handled the game - "not enough freedoms" "too much combat" (nevermind that I had DMed/STed for three weeks straight even though I said that I'd do so every other week, and I didn't have much time during that time period to think too much about elaborate stories) - and since it becomes too crowded at the table (a couple of players complained) - I had to let him go.
*Since he had a couple of things to complain about my DMing/STing style, I think I can safely say some stuff about his style, too.
Edition Issues:
Orc: "As a free action, I summon my axe and shield"
Player: "How?"
Orc: "Gloves of storing. They are very useful. First thing I buy for each of my characters. I have two."
DM: Sure, if you can afford 20k Gil.
Orc: "The only cost 2400 each"
DM: "No they don't."
Orc: "I'm pretty sure."
DM: "So am I"
Orc: "I'd put my hand into the fire for it."
DM: "You'd be burned. Here, see? The book says '10.000'"
Orc: "Since when?"
DM: "3.5"
Orc: "This is stupid"
DM: "They replace a whole feat - quick draw - they're actually better, since quick draw doesn't let you drop it.
If something "is quite useful and used on every character", It might be undercosted..."
Understanding of the rules
Orc: "Why does the Ranger with d8 have as many HP as my Fighter Barbarian?"
DM: "His CON is higher than yours."
Orc: "No, it's not, we both have 16"
DM: "He has +2 from an item."
Orc: "But that doesn't count. Only real con counts!"
DM: "No, items count - if you lose them, you lose the HP:"
Orc: "Since when?"
DM: "Ever since 3e was there."
Orc: "I'd like to try AD&D 2e, since you can't minmax as much there (yes, he complained about minmaxing)"
DM: "If someone doesn't want to minmax, he just doesn't. And the DM can always stop it. But it's far easier than taking all the arbitrary rules out of the ruleset, like 'elves can't be bards' and 'halflings can't be wizards'. I don't like classes being restricted by races."
Orc: "But 3e does it, too."
DM: "With PrC's, yes, but that's expected, as they're supposed to fill very special roles."
Orc: "No, they also have that for base classes. In the beginning of the PHB there is a list of things each race can be"
DM: "No, there isn't any such thing"
Orc: "Since when?" (yes, that line was getting old faster than a state-of-the-art graphics card!)
DM: "Ever since 3e hit the scene. There are lists of what the races usually are - but that's only demographics, no hard restrictions. Just because few orcs ever become sorcerers doesn't mean they may not be wizards."
Their House rules
I just remember one thing: They didn't use AoO, and he loved to play wizards. I call that suspicious - especially since he played a dumb fighter when AoO did apply.
My House Rules
Seeing as they use a lot of houserules - or maybe they just don't understand many of the rules and misinterpret them, I don't know for sure - you'd think that he knew about house rules. That he inquired about them or at least accepted them when told about them during character creation. I might have told him sooner about them, but I can't think of everything, and I was busy the last couple of weeks.
I even have a compilation of rules I gave to the players (well, at least those who started the campaign with me). The rules are some things I liked changed, some things we pretty much use in all our games, and some pet peeves of mine. Whenever he heard about them, he complained aloud:
Orc: "I'd like to play a dwarf, but I don't like that they're small in your game."
DM: "That's how they are."
Orc: "Why?"
Player: "Because he hates them:"
DM: "Well, there's that - but I only kill them in horrible ways because of that. No, the house rule is because I think they're overpowered."
Orc: "And how?" (I might add that his tone was not exactly "inquiring"...)
DM: "Well, all the bonuses geared towards creating the best possible fighter, with nary a bonus that doesn't help one way or another.
So I cut them down to size. Having to use smaller weapons should balance them out enough (and the whole grapple and so on part - though against some things, they're protected with their stable footing).
Orc: "Can't I just play a medium dwarf?"
DM: "No, where should he come from?"
Orc: "From mediumdwarfland"
DM: *rolls his eyes*
DM: "No rolling stats, we use point buy"
Orc: "I don't like that."
DM: "It has its advantages. It keeps the field level. Plus, you can create your character at home without the DM, as he doesn't have to witness the rolls!"
Orc: "If the DM thinks I'm cheating, he can very well tell me" (how does that proverb about dogs barking go again?)
Orc: "So, I'll only have to roll my HP and we can start"
DM: "We don't roll HP, we use fixed values:"
Orc: "What? I want to roll HP!"
DM: "Not in my game, you won't."
Note that in my Vampire: The Requiem chronicle, he did more or less the same. Made the character off screen, so I couldn't look it up before - and ended up with a killer. Because he wasn't there, he never heard my saying that those characters should try clinging to their humanity. He of course knew a lot about the old World of Darkness, and didn't seem to like the new one too much - no path of the devil where you were rewarded behaving like a homicidal maniac or something (I might add that he repeatedly said that evil D&D groups are a bad Idea). He ended up saying that Vampires sucks if you can't play an evil one. Also, every second sentence was him asking about whether this obscure detail of V:tM was still in or that one. If you don't know the old rules too much, that can get annoying.
Finally, his generous use of the line: "well, I guess you can put lipstick on a pig, too" for everything, started to wear on my nerves pretty fast. Sure, if you don't like something, you can say so, but getting cynical with the DM is never a good idea.
Anyway, for those who're still reading: I just wanted to write it down. I'm not even angry about it all. It was just weird enough for me to think that I should write it down. Maybe see what people think.
Oh, and if you ever have to deal with a character that you consider a bit too concentrated on strength and neglecting cha a bit too much -> a manifester with ego whip is all you need! Those 6 points cha are gone pretty quickly, you know.
His stats had to be corrected repeatedly during (and after) character creation - it seems his other group used 3.0 instead of 3.5, and even then changed - or misunderstood - a great deal of rules*. Plus, he didn't bother to ask about house rules - and of course, he'd complain about most of them when he learned about them.*
So, his character was done. In a party of characters that ranged from good to exalted, he managed to put a half-orc barbarian/fighter. Of course, Int and Cha had no points put into them. Evil minds would think him a powergamer, but he had said before that he didn't like min-maxing, so it can't be.
Now, the session was underway, the party had been ambushed by a group of assassins (not the PrC) sent to deal with them specifically (yes, I felt I had to use the dark mirror scenario, and most characters had someone who had more or less the same role as them - only accomplished using different means: The warmage had a wilder, the warlock eldritch blaster had a soulknife shooter and so on)
the room being partially divided by the party warmage's blade barrier (from the previous battle), and one "spellslinger" who kept blasting the crap out of them while eluding the punishment her fellow assassins were receiving (elude touch and vigor are a nice combo against warlocks and warmages with a love of disintegrate), the stupid, ugly half-orc decided to grapple the "caster" and hold her face in front of the blade barrier to threaten her (a quite cunning move for a stupid half-orc, mind you).
So she ignored his threats and "cast something".
DM: "She seems to disregard your warnings, as your mind is assaulted by something. Make a will save."
Orc: (rolls) "nothing much"
DM: "Bad for you, as you get (rolls) 14 damage."
Orc: "If it's nothi..."
DM: "To your CHARISMA!"
From
-sure, cunning strategist (with Int and Cha 6 each) to catatonic vegetable in one fell swoop!The best part about this: I never intended to give her the ego whip to attack this character, as the character - the player, even - wasn't part of the group when I designed that encounter. It just worked too well.
Since his playing style differs from our own, and he seemed not to like how I handled the game - "not enough freedoms" "too much combat" (nevermind that I had DMed/STed for three weeks straight even though I said that I'd do so every other week, and I didn't have much time during that time period to think too much about elaborate stories) - and since it becomes too crowded at the table (a couple of players complained) - I had to let him go.
*Since he had a couple of things to complain about my DMing/STing style, I think I can safely say some stuff about his style, too.
Edition Issues:
Orc: "As a free action, I summon my axe and shield"
Player: "How?"
Orc: "Gloves of storing. They are very useful. First thing I buy for each of my characters. I have two."
DM: Sure, if you can afford 20k Gil.
Orc: "The only cost 2400 each"
DM: "No they don't."
Orc: "I'm pretty sure."
DM: "So am I"
Orc: "I'd put my hand into the fire for it."
DM: "You'd be burned. Here, see? The book says '10.000'"
Orc: "Since when?"
DM: "3.5"
Orc: "This is stupid"
DM: "They replace a whole feat - quick draw - they're actually better, since quick draw doesn't let you drop it.
If something "is quite useful and used on every character", It might be undercosted..."
Understanding of the rules
Orc: "Why does the Ranger with d8 have as many HP as my Fighter Barbarian?"
DM: "His CON is higher than yours."
Orc: "No, it's not, we both have 16"
DM: "He has +2 from an item."
Orc: "But that doesn't count. Only real con counts!"
DM: "No, items count - if you lose them, you lose the HP:"
Orc: "Since when?"
DM: "Ever since 3e was there."
Orc: "I'd like to try AD&D 2e, since you can't minmax as much there (yes, he complained about minmaxing)"
DM: "If someone doesn't want to minmax, he just doesn't. And the DM can always stop it. But it's far easier than taking all the arbitrary rules out of the ruleset, like 'elves can't be bards' and 'halflings can't be wizards'. I don't like classes being restricted by races."
Orc: "But 3e does it, too."
DM: "With PrC's, yes, but that's expected, as they're supposed to fill very special roles."
Orc: "No, they also have that for base classes. In the beginning of the PHB there is a list of things each race can be"
DM: "No, there isn't any such thing"
Orc: "Since when?" (yes, that line was getting old faster than a state-of-the-art graphics card!)
DM: "Ever since 3e hit the scene. There are lists of what the races usually are - but that's only demographics, no hard restrictions. Just because few orcs ever become sorcerers doesn't mean they may not be wizards."
Their House rules
I just remember one thing: They didn't use AoO, and he loved to play wizards. I call that suspicious - especially since he played a dumb fighter when AoO did apply.
My House Rules
Seeing as they use a lot of houserules - or maybe they just don't understand many of the rules and misinterpret them, I don't know for sure - you'd think that he knew about house rules. That he inquired about them or at least accepted them when told about them during character creation. I might have told him sooner about them, but I can't think of everything, and I was busy the last couple of weeks.
I even have a compilation of rules I gave to the players (well, at least those who started the campaign with me). The rules are some things I liked changed, some things we pretty much use in all our games, and some pet peeves of mine. Whenever he heard about them, he complained aloud:
Orc: "I'd like to play a dwarf, but I don't like that they're small in your game."
DM: "That's how they are."
Orc: "Why?"
Player: "Because he hates them:"
DM: "Well, there's that - but I only kill them in horrible ways because of that. No, the house rule is because I think they're overpowered."
Orc: "And how?" (I might add that his tone was not exactly "inquiring"...)
DM: "Well, all the bonuses geared towards creating the best possible fighter, with nary a bonus that doesn't help one way or another.
So I cut them down to size. Having to use smaller weapons should balance them out enough (and the whole grapple and so on part - though against some things, they're protected with their stable footing).
Orc: "Can't I just play a medium dwarf?"
DM: "No, where should he come from?"
Orc: "From mediumdwarfland"
DM: *rolls his eyes*
DM: "No rolling stats, we use point buy"
Orc: "I don't like that."
DM: "It has its advantages. It keeps the field level. Plus, you can create your character at home without the DM, as he doesn't have to witness the rolls!"
Orc: "If the DM thinks I'm cheating, he can very well tell me" (how does that proverb about dogs barking go again?)
Orc: "So, I'll only have to roll my HP and we can start"
DM: "We don't roll HP, we use fixed values:"
Orc: "What? I want to roll HP!"
DM: "Not in my game, you won't."
Note that in my Vampire: The Requiem chronicle, he did more or less the same. Made the character off screen, so I couldn't look it up before - and ended up with a killer. Because he wasn't there, he never heard my saying that those characters should try clinging to their humanity. He of course knew a lot about the old World of Darkness, and didn't seem to like the new one too much - no path of the devil where you were rewarded behaving like a homicidal maniac or something (I might add that he repeatedly said that evil D&D groups are a bad Idea). He ended up saying that Vampires sucks if you can't play an evil one. Also, every second sentence was him asking about whether this obscure detail of V:tM was still in or that one. If you don't know the old rules too much, that can get annoying.
Finally, his generous use of the line: "well, I guess you can put lipstick on a pig, too" for everything, started to wear on my nerves pretty fast. Sure, if you don't like something, you can say so, but getting cynical with the DM is never a good idea.
Anyway, for those who're still reading: I just wanted to write it down. I'm not even angry about it all. It was just weird enough for me to think that I should write it down. Maybe see what people think.
Oh, and if you ever have to deal with a character that you consider a bit too concentrated on strength and neglecting cha a bit too much -> a manifester with ego whip is all you need! Those 6 points cha are gone pretty quickly, you know.
