[EL] Hidden Epic Level Feats!

[Cthulhu]

I think that most intelligent epic opponents (IMHO, all of them) will either have see invis up all the time or they are suicidal or have some secret plan that involves inviting people to attack them.

Look at just about all high level outsiders and dragons - most of the high CR opponents. They all have fun ways of beating invisibility.

Also, later on today before my game session starts, I'm going to be pricing out various See Invisibility items for our 10 - 11th level group. After a battle in which every combatant was Improved Invisible, and after the first round only 1 person (me) on the adventurer team could see invisible. Playing air traffic controller sucks. "All personnel, please delay: your destination will be illuminated via Flamestrike momentarily. Fighter_1 please come about to vector . . ."

*snatches Victim up in his talons*

Hmmm...you were made for this day.

*eats him*

Bwahahahaha!

 

[Breakstone]

God bless ya, Cthulhu!

 

[Paladin]

I think that most intelligent epic opponents (IMHO, all of them) will either have see invis up all the time or they are suicidal or have some secret plan that involves inviting people to attack them.

Look at just about all high level outsiders and dragons - most of the high CR opponents. They all have fun ways of beating invisibility.

Also, later on today before my game session starts, I'm going to be pricing out various See Invisibility items for our 10 - 11th level group. After a battle in which every combatant was Improved Invisible, and after the first round only 1 person (me) on the adventurer team could see invisible. Playing air traffic controller sucks. "All personnel, please delay: your destination will be illuminated via Flamestrike momentarily. Fighter_1 please come about to vector . . ."

One targeted Dispel Magic and See Invisibility is gone.

 

[Victim]

Yes, because we know that dispel checks are ALWAYS successful. Since Dispels can potentially do tons of damage to buffed high level characters, stuff like Spell Girding, counterspell items, spell absorbtion items, and the even so fun spell turning items will probably be fairly common at Epic levels, if not before. Besides, you'll probably have time to act between getting dispelled and the rogue closing the distance from a safe range to 30 feet max for sneak attacks. If not, he probably had to double move and so will only get 1 attack. Besides, one targeted Dispel Magic and Improved Invis might be gone as well.

Finally, Lingering damage requires crippling strike, whcih isn't exactly my first (or second, or third) choice for a rogue special ability.

(From inside Cthulhu): You see, this unpleasentness is just what I mean. Truly epic foes aren't fazed a bit by Fly or Improved Invisibility spells. It didn't help the 13 20th level iconics and it didn't help me.

 

[Paladin]

Yes, because we know that dispel checks are ALWAYS successful. Since Dispels can potentially do tons of damage to buffed high level characters, stuff like Spell Girding, counterspell items, spell absorbtion items, and the even so fun spell turning items will probably be fairly common at Epic levels, if not before. Besides, you'll probably have time to act between getting dispelled and the rogue closing the distance from a safe range to 30 feet max for sneak attacks. If not, he probably had to double move and so will only get 1 attack. Besides, one targeted Dispel Magic and Improved Invis might be gone as well.

Finally, Lingering damage requires crippling strike, whcih isn't exactly my first (or second, or third) choice for a rogue special ability.

(From inside Cthulhu): You see, this unpleasentness is just what I mean. Truly epic foes aren't fazed a bit by Fly or Improved Invisibility spells. It didn't help the 13 20th level iconics and it didn't help me.

True, but Mord's Disjunction would nuke See Invisibility and whatever other buffing spells in place, and have a decent chance to nuke any items that could provide the spell too. Taking crippling strike might move up on that list to take Lingering Damage.
Plus, I don't know about your campaign, but in mine not every single creature the PCs fight has the ability to cast spells. I mean, what if the enemy is a high-level fighter or barbarian? This feat won't be useful against every opponent, but what feat is?

 

[Victim]

Mord's has a ten or twenty foot radius. In closing to that range, the person has probably already been seen. But yes, Mordwhatever has a few really cool spells such as Disjunction and Magnificent Mansion that can be quite useful in high level play.

At high levels, most intelligent enemies should have the ability to fly and see invis either from spells or items. Even fighters or barbarians should. Otherwise, a 7th level wizard with a few wands could be able to beat them, much less Epic level opponents. Like I mentioned earlier, if our group gets enough treasure from the evil wizard that we beat, I'll try to convince our wizard to make see invis items for some of the fighters. Besides fighters at least might want powerful fortification/reinforcement effects which beat sneak attack.

I'm not saying that it isn't useful, just that it's not as hideously powerful as one might think. And yes, crippling strike might be well worth it to that Lingering Damage.

 

[Paladin]

Victim-

You're definitely right about Fortification becoming a major factor at high level play. IMC, most of the party has just reached 20th level, and if not for Heavy Fortification, they most likely all would've perished last combat.

BTW, an Epic Rogue with a bow (your choice) with the Brilliant Energy enhancement (on the arrows) and a scroll of Clairvoyance/Clairaudience, behind a wall, is *pretty* effective.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Now these feats, more or less, look about right for the 21st to 40th-level range....

(and this was mainly a bump, to get it back on the front page )

 

[EOL]

What are the ep[ic wild shape ones? The druid in my party m9ight want to drool over them.

So, the perfect 2-weapon proves that the tempest is just a list of feats given as special powers, that's a shame.

So far nothing has come out of the ELHB which duplicates the perfect ambidexterity ability (I believe it's called) which gets rid of the -2/-2 penalty.

 

[Caliban]

I think that most intelligent epic opponents (IMHO, all of them) will either have see invis up all the time or they are suicidal or have some secret plan that involves inviting people to attack them.

Look at just about all high level outsiders and dragons - most of the high CR opponents. They all have fun ways of beating invisibility.

Also, later on today before my game session starts, I'm going to be pricing out various See Invisibility items for our 10 - 11th level group. After a battle in which every combatant was Improved Invisible, and after the first round only 1 person (me) on the adventurer team could see invisible. Playing air traffic controller sucks. "All personnel, please delay: your destination will be illuminated via Flamestrike momentarily. Fighter_1 please come about to vector . . ."

I was in this situation once. An Improved Invisible lich was blasting the party, and only my Pseudodragon familiar could see him. I was basically the party mascot as an 8th level wizard hiding behind the 14th and 15th level characters in the group (the 14th level wizard had true seeing up, but no one else could see the lich). The only reason I survived the initial cone of cold from the lich was because the 13th level cleric had cast shield other on me earlier and I had endurance up.

I cast glitterdust on the lich and hasted the 13th level cleric, then got out of the line of fire. The cleric nuked the lich with two searing light spells, the fighters charged, the 14th level wizard hit the lich with a targeted dispel magic, and next round I finished him off with a magic missile spell. (The lich's shield has been dispelled.)

Sorry, I just felt like bragging.