D&D 5E Elder Brain Armor--Volo's Guide gap

[FormerlyHemlock]

I would not interpret it as saying the enclosure is itself invulnerable. Just that you cannot attack the EB through the enclosure. So decide on how much damage must be dealt to the enclosure in order to break it.

And BTW you can apply the same thinking to Leomund's Tiny Hut. Unlike Wall of Force, it does not say that the hut is invulnerable to harm, merely that objects cannot pass through it. (That sounds an awful lot like a regular wooden hut to me, except that this one happens to be magical and transparent.)

 

[Flamestrike]

I like this, but... a Wall of Force is a Concentration spell and would not fully enclose the EB. Also, the spell description says nothing about psi damage getting through. Actually a wall of force is immune to psi damage as well (immune to ALL damage).

When you think about it, the EB in the glass-like enclosure WITH wall of force up is damn well defended. At it should be.

So, no, the glass-like enclosure is separate from its wall-of-force lair power.

The Wall of Force can be shaped as a 10' radius dome. That should cover the (Large) brain no worries at all.

Nothing can physically pass through the wall. It is immune to all damage and can’t be dispelled by dispel magic. Psionic attacks (mind blast, dominate person etc) should pass through it just fine.

 

[Leatherhead]

In the description for the "Tadpole Chambers" on VGM 78, it stats "The elder brain dictates that populations of tadpoles be kept in smaller pools under guard, away from the brine pool. Should the brine pool be destroyed in an attack, these tadpoles stand a better chance of survival."

So there are tadpoles in the brine pool, just not all of the them.

 

[MNblockhead]

The Wall of Force can be shaped as a 10' radius dome. That should cover the (Large) brain no worries at all.

Nothing can physically pass through the wall. It is immune to all damage and can’t be dispelled by dispel magic. Psionic attacks (mind blast, dominate person etc) should pass through it just fine.

Though a wall of force can be disintegrated. But that's not my objection. What bothers me is that Wall of Force is a Concentration spell. So is levitate, detect thoughts, and dominate monsters. But dominate monster is once a day, so cast that and then wall of force. Seems like the EB could do it on the same round. Dominate monster as an action and wall of force as initiative count 20 lair action.

Yeah, I think I'm talking myself into this. Wall of Force makes a lot more sense. The elder brain can sink into the brine pool and cast wall of force scooping so it is surrounded by brine in the wall of force.

The one issue with this is how does it levitate from the resting pool to the elder-brain chamber (as shown in the example map). Casting levitation requires concentration. I guess a mind flayer could levitate it. I also suppose that there could be a smaller brine pool in the Elder Brain Chamber and some kind of valve-like portal that allows the elder brain to move between the resting pool and the elder brain chamber without emptying the smaller brine pool in the elder brain chamber.

Really, my issue is turning out to be more about the map on VGM page 79. The Elder Brain Chamber makes no sense if it is just using a wall of force. Actually, I see little utility for that room at all. And everything else I've ever read about Illithiad only discuss the elder brain residing in a brine pool. It makes more sense that it would just have the "resting pool" and would throw up wall of force when a threat presented itself.

A separate Elder Brain Chamber only makes sense if the EB holds court with non-illithiads, which doesn't seem very much like mind flayers. But if it did, I could see it wanting to take visitors in a room removed from where the tadpole chambers are.

Hmmm... so I think I'm back to using Wall of Force as the explanation. That's actually tougher to defeat. Really, only the disintegration spell with counter it. Or you have to find a way to break its concentration.

 

[MNblockhead]

So there are tadpoles in the brine pool, just not all of the them.

I didn't read it that way, but rereading it, yeah, that makes sense.

 

[MNblockhead]

As much as I like the wall of force explanation, it can't be what VGM is talking about.

Wall of force is an invisible wall of force.
VGM states the EB is protected by an "impenetrable layer of a glass-like substance"

A Wall of Force block anything physical from entering. It seems that lots of spells would still harm/control someone behind a wall of force: vicious mockery, dominate monster/person, etc...anything that doesn't involve anything physically passing through it.

The EB enclosure, however, "blocks all attacks, except for psionic abilities." An attack is anything that requires an attack roll, so any spell that doesn't involve an attack roll, should be able to work through the enclosure.

Perhaps I am just splitting hairs. I guess they are close enough.

It would seem that for both, a spell like "banishment" would work.

 

[Flamestrike]

Though a wall of force can be disintegrated. But that's not my objection. What bothers me is that Wall of Force is a Concentration spell. So is levitate, detect thoughts, and dominate monsters. But dominate monster is once a day, so cast that and then wall of force. Seems like the EB could do it on the same round. Dominate monster as an action and wall of force as initiative count 20 lair action.

Yeah, I think I'm talking myself into this. Wall of Force makes a lot more sense. The elder brain can sink into the brine pool and cast wall of force scooping so it is surrounded by brine in the wall of force.

The one issue with this is how does it levitate from the resting pool to the elder-brain chamber (as shown in the example map). Casting levitation requires concentration. I guess a mind flayer could levitate it. I also suppose that there could be a smaller brine pool in the Elder Brain Chamber and some kind of valve-like portal that allows the elder brain to move between the resting pool and the elder brain chamber without emptying the smaller brine pool in the elder brain chamber.

Really, my issue is turning out to be more about the map on VGM page 79. The Elder Brain Chamber makes no sense if it is just using a wall of force. Actually, I see little utility for that room at all. And everything else I've ever read about Illithiad only discuss the elder brain residing in a brine pool. It makes more sense that it would just have the "resting pool" and would throw up wall of force when a threat presented itself.

A separate Elder Brain Chamber only makes sense if the EB holds court with non-illithiads, which doesn't seem very much like mind flayers. But if it did, I could see it wanting to take visitors in a room removed from where the tadpole chambers are.

Hmmm... so I think I'm back to using Wall of Force as the explanation. That's actually tougher to defeat. Really, only the disintegration spell with counter it. Or you have to find a way to break its concentration.

Screw concentration. Just macguffin it. Its a monster. It doesnt need to play by the same rules.

It can concentrate on Wall of Force and do other stuff because its an Illithid Elder Brain and its scary.

 

[BMaC]

In my DMsGuild adventure (shameless plug: The Horror Under the Mountain), the Elder Brain made its pool in a pit. This allows it to close off the top with a wall of force.

 

[Charles Rampant]

I'd be inclined to have the situation where the Elder Brain's tank does indeed have impenetrable glass - so that archers cannot shoot it, for example - but that the impenetrable glass can be bypassed or destroyed. I mean, the moment you have a metal framework - something black and dripping with moisture - the players' eyes will light up, and they'll ask precisely how tough and well constructed the metal frame is...

 

[Mecheon]

Screw concentration. Just macguffin it. Its a monster. It doesnt need to play by the same rules.

It can concentrate on Wall of Force and do other stuff because its an Illithid Elder Brain and its scary.

Plus Elder Brains are gestalt entities comprised of at least a few Illithids, and even extend their mass onto other planes if you go by the Illithiad

If anything can break the rules, its them.