D&D 5E Eldritch Blast Mulitclass Clarification

[spectacle]

Without Agonizing Blast and/or Hex Eldritch Blast is no better than Fire Bolt, you just roll more attack rolls to achieve the same average damage.

And I really don't see the point of turning a suboptimal option into a completely worthless option, but you can play how you want I guess. I just think it's generally better to understand the rules before you houserule anything, instead of just changing things based on feelings.

 

[Noctem]

Without Agonizing Blast and/or Hex Eldritch Blast is no better than Fire Bolt, you just roll more attack rolls to achieve the same average damage.

And I really don't see the point of turning a suboptimal option into a completely worthless option, but you can play how you want I guess. I just think it's generally better to understand the rules before you houserule anything, instead of just changing things based on feelings.

agreed on all counts.

 

[Ristamar]

Then you should look? I mean, I didn't say that it was broken or a power build requirement anywhere, did I? I said I didn't like it. Not that you shouldn't, or that it's gonna break the game, but that I didn't like it. I defended my statement that it was useful against statements that it wasn't the optimal choice, which I also never contended. We disagree that it's not stepping on the toes of other classes. End point, and I'm happy with my houserule.

Thanks!

My apologies. I guess the real point of contention was the meaning or degree of "stepping on toes" since I don't believe a couple of cantrips undermine the features of other classes.

Enjoy what works best for your game, of course.

 

[Ovinomancer]

[MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION] quit while you're behind. Your posts are just misinformed here. You say it's bad that you can do a 1 level dip to get EB. It's the only cantrip in the game that works this way and the opportunity cost to MC warlock just for a cantrip and delay your class progression by a level isn't to be ignored. If you use magic initiate the opportunity cost is even bigger. You say it's overpowered because 4 attacks blah blah heavy crossbow. Mellored deftly proves that no, it's really not overpowered at all compared to a heavy crossbow user on a fighter chassis without factoring in a bunch of other stuff.

Like you're going through all these things and it honestly feels like you didn't bother looking into this at all and you're just knee jerking over and over. Relax bud, look up the subject and maybe you'll see that it's really not a big deal.

Dude, shove off. I'm not misinformed. You're attacking arguments I didn't make. I never restricted myself to EB, and all cantrips that can get better with level do get better with level (firebolt, which I used as an example, frex). I can't even imagine how the opportunity cost for a feat is more than an entirely class level which prevents capstones and slows progression in primary abilities, so, yeah.

Mellord did show that heavy C-bow is a better options, provided the target doesn't have resistance that you can't bypass. And that fact is something I also noted as arguing in my favor because the classes that don't advance spell levels all have compensating things that make it less useful to rely on cantrips, even fully powered ones. So there's no need to give fully powered cantrips because they're not necessary. Useful, yes, but not necessary.

And that brings me to my third point. The MOST I've said about the cantrips is that they are useful. End point. Arguments that imply I think they are overpowered or game breaking are off target.

Finally, all I said was that I didn't like the rule. IMC, cantrips will level by spellcaster multiclassing rules. This isn't such a complex statement that it requires a careful numbers analysis of the mechanical impacts -- there were small to begin with and they remain small. It goes to flavor only. And no amount of you telling me to relax and look up the subject will change the flavor argument.

We clear?

 

[Ovinomancer]

Without Agonizing Blast and/or Hex Eldritch Blast is no better than Fire Bolt, you just roll more attack rolls to achieve the same average damage.

My contention wasn't based on damage totals, but damage type. EB being force means that there are vanishingly few things that have resistance or immunity, especially compared to fire which, after poison, has the most things that are resistance or immune. Maybe I wasn't very clear there, but I was specifically talking about resistance, not total damage.

And I really don't see the point of turning a suboptimal option into a completely worthless option, but you can play how you want I guess. I just think it's generally better to understand the rules before you houserule anything, instead of just changing things based on feelings.

Flavor. I don't like short dips having equivalent power to straight casters on any aspect. It breaks immersion to me that the fighter with a feat is as good at a magic class at anything past first level. End of point. I'm not making any mechanical argument that such and such is gamebreaking. I, mistakenly, entered into the discussion because I was trying to show that a fully powered cantrip is useful to a non-caster, and, in some situations, provides a very nice bit of versatility and utility. They're uncommon situations, sure, and granted, but it's not the most stupid choice imaginable as the optimizer math arguments tried to prove (and I don't dispute any of those).

 

[Ovinomancer]

My apologies. I guess the real point of contention was the meaning or degree of "stepping on toes" since I don't believe a couple of cantrips undermine the features of other classes.

Enjoy what works best for your game, of course.

No need to apologize. Is cool. These things get strangely hot sometimes.

 

[Pauper]

No need to apologize. Is cool. These things get strangely hot sometimes.

Eh, not so strange -- the optimization crowd, in my experience, tends to flare up pretty quickly at any suggestion that goes against how they interpret (or mis-interpret) the rules, even if that suggestion is entirely defensible by flavor or setting standards.

As long as you don't have any at your table, you should be fine with your ruling.

--
Pauper

 

[mellored]

cantrips get better so they arn't completely useless.

 

[Eric V]

Is a multiclass pal/feylock wasting time taking EB as their ranged option?

 

[Noctem]

No waste of time, EB can serve very well as a ranged option imo.