D&D 5E Eldritch spear + spellsniper + distant spell

[delph]

Hi,
I have a quick question. On some FB page I have a discussion about using EB with eldritch spear + SS + distant spell. One guy said it can't be combined, because "general rules overridden by specific rules." and EB with ES will be always only 300 ft.

I never read Eldritch spear by this way. Only as change 60 ft to 300 ft...

 

[BluejayJunior]

I'd say it works fine. ES changes the range to 300 feet, spell sniper doubles the range, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't stack. It certainly isn't a case of specific beats general, because both are specific rules. Not sure how that is supposed to factor into it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

For reference:

and spell sniper:

What the guy is failing to realize is all three of these are specific rules that affect range and thus all three work in combination. The general rule in question is you can only used a range spell attack to against a target within range.

Distant Spell and Spell Sniper both double the range. Since they are not the same feature, their effects stack. So, the range is quadrupled (x4). Eldritch Spear replaces the range of eldritch blast with 300 feet instead of 120 feet.

Does a 1200-foot EB seem broken? Sure, even just the 600-foot EB is a bit crazy. But, you are expending a lot to get a huge bump to range: in total an Eldritch Invocation, a Metamagic (and Sorcery Point per use!), and a Feat. IMO it is overkill for most encounters and the use of the Distant Spell would just be an "as-needed boost" to an already huge range (matching a longbow, but with no disadvantage for long range).

 

[Ovinomancer]

For reference:
View attachment 127008
View attachment 127009
and spell sniper:
View attachment 127010

What the guy is failing to realize is all three of these are specific rules that affect range and thus all three work in combination. The general rule in question is you can only used a range spell attack to against a target within range.

Distant Spell and Spell Sniper both double the range. Since they are not the same feature, their effects stack. So, the range is quadrupled (x4). Eldritch Spear replaces the range of eldritch blast with 300 feet instead of 120 feet.

Does a 1200-foot EB seem broken? Sure, even just the 600-foot EB is a bit crazy. But, you are expending a lot to get a huge bump to range: in total an Eldritch Invocation, a Metamagic (and Sorcery Point per use!), and a Feat. IMO it is overkill for most encounters and the use of the Distant Spell would just be an "as-needed boost" to an already huge range (matching a longbow, but with no disadvantage for long range).

So, yes, with ES the spell range of EB is 300ft. This is important because ES actually changes the spell's base range. After that, though, it's harder. Distant spell doubkes the spell's range, but doesn't change it. Same for spell sniper. So, if I have a base 300ft range, spell sniper doubles the spell's range to 600ft, but the spell's base range doesn't change. Distant spell then steps in and doubles the spell's range, which is still 300ft, not 600ft. Here you have two choices -- both effects double the spell's range to 600ft, so you can either stop here with no additive effects (both make the spell 600ft, so it's 600ft), or you can say spell sniper adds 300ft and distant spell adds 300ft, so the answer is 900ft.

I prefer 600ft.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

None of the effects overules the other, so there is no need to invoke "specific beats general". However, in order to target someone 1200 feet away with a spell the caster would need to be able to see a target that far away.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So, yes, with ES the spell range of EB is 300ft. This is important because ES actually changes the spell's base range. After that, though, it's harder. Distant spell doubkes the spell's range, but doesn't change it. Same for spell sniper. So, if I have a base 300ft range, spell sniper doubles the spell's range to 600ft, but the spell's base range doesn't change. Distant spell then steps in and doubles the spell's range, which is still 300ft, not 600ft. Here you have two choices -- both effects double the spell's range to 600ft, so you can either stop here with no additive effects (both make the spell 600ft, so it's 600ft), or you can say spell sniper adds 300ft and distant spell adds 300ft, so the answer is 900ft.

I prefer 600ft.

While I understand your logic, I have to disagree. In 5E, if two effects have the same result, but different names, the effects stack unless it is explicitly stated otherwise.

Personally, I agree 600 feet is MORE than sufficient, but I wouldn't stop a player from getting 1200 feet if they also want to invest a metamagic and spend a sorcery point for the shot. shrug

 

[Hohige]

The sorcerer has flight speed. It's a flying lazer machine.

 

[Helldritch]

None of the effects overules the other, so there is no need to invoke "specific beats general". However, in order to target someone 1200 feet away with a spell the caster would need to be able to see a target that far away.

Eyes of the eagle?

 

[Hohige]

Eyes of the eagle?

Why? a vision of normal human is 5 mile. If the sorlock has flight speed, It's easy to do.

 

[Helldritch]

Why? a vision of normal human is 5 mile. If the sorlock has flight speed, It's easy to do.

Do you go hunting? Trying to hit anything beyond 600 feet in a forest is really hard. Even snipers need a pointer/helper and scope at great distance. At least an EB does not care about the wind...