Pathfinder 1E Elixirs of healing

[Matthias]

I want to develop a wondrous item that fills the role of a generic "healing potion" but which does not draw on the power of a Cure X Wounds spell, nor is limited to 3rd level spells like a potion, but would store a cleric's channel energy for later use (by a single creature, the drinker).

It should be reasonable to assume that a healing elixir can fully scale up to whatever caster level the crafting cleric is willing and able to imbue into his normal channel ability.


What might the creation cost and market values of such items be? I am not sure what category on Table 15-29 "mimic class feature" would fall under.

 

[GamerImp]

Well, single-use use-activated items like potions or elixirs are caster level x 50 gp x spell level. I would argue that a single-target channel positive energy effect would have an approximate spell level of one less than the number of dice in the channel effect. (Thus, a 3rd level cleric would channel 2d6, which is treated as a "level 1" spell effect. A 1st level cleric's channel would be a 0 level (counted as 1/2 level for magic items, see the "0-level Spells" addendum just past the gold pieces for magic item value table. A 20th level cleric would channel 10d6, which would be counted as a 9th, and thus maximum, spell level effect.)

Pricewise, this would mean that the following values would be market prices (creation cost half, of course):

Elixir of Healing (1d6): 25gp - 7.15 gp/hp
Elixir of Healing (2d6): 150gp - 21.43 gp/hp
Elixir of Healing (3d6): 500gp - 47.62 gp/hp
Elixir of Healing (4d6): 1050gp - 75 gp/hp

Compare healing potions:
Potion of Cure Light Wounds (1d8+1): 50gp - 9.09 gp/hp
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds (2d8+3): 300gp - 25 gp/hp
Potion of Cure Serious Wounds (3d8+5): 750gp - 40.54 gp/hp

So: The elixirs are *slightly* cheaper than the standard healing potions at the first two thresholds, and slightly more expensive at the third threshold, by efficiency. Potions normally can't be made past Cure Serious Wounds, but if one could do so a potion of Cure Critical would have an efficiency of 56.00 gp/hp, so the traditional potions do get better and better compared to these "Channel Elixirs" as levels get higher, but if you're looking for a way to supply non-Cure-spell healing at low levels, I think my method will work quite well.

 

[Matthias]

Elixirs of healing should be differentiable according to how channel energy scales; i.e.:

Elixir of healing 1d6 (CL 1)
Elixir of healing 2d6 (CL 3)
Elixir of healing 3d6 (CL 5)
...
Elixir of healing 10d6 (CL 19)

If we apply the similar item cost concept (similar potency equals similar cost), we may price the basic CL 1 elixir of healing as slightly cheaper than a Cure Light Wounds potion of minimum caster level (1d6 vs. 1d8+1 hp), and then extrapolate from there, bearing in mind that the average hp increase of the Cure Wounds spell progression rises faster relative to the average hp of Channel Energy levels.

Elixir of healing 1d6 (avg 3.5 hp) ~ Cure Lgt. Wounds (50 gp, avg 5.5 hp)
Elixir of healing 2d6 (avg 7.0 hp)
Elixir of healing 3d6 (avg 10.5 hp) ~ Cure Mod. Wounds (300 gp, avg 12.0 hp)
Elixir of healing 4d6 (avg 14.0 hp)
Elixir of healing 5d6 (avg 17.5 hp) ~ Cure Ser. Wounds (750 gp, avg 18.5 hp)
Elixir of healing 6d6 (avg 21.0 hp)
Elixir of healing 7d6 (avg 24.5 hp) ~ hypothetical 4th level potion (1,400 gp, avg 25.0 hp)
Elixir of healing 8d6 (avg 28.0 hp)
Elixir of healing 9d6 (avg 31.5 hp) ~ hypothetical 5th level potion (2,250 gp, avg 31.5 hp)
Elixir of healing 10d6 (avg 35.0 hp) ~ hypothetical 6th level potion (3,300 gp, avg 38 hp)

Condensing, we get:

Elixir of healing 3d6 (avg 10.5 hp) ~ 300 gp ~ Cure Mod. Wounds (300 gp, avg 12.0 hp)
Elixir of healing 5d6 (avg 17.5 hp) ~ 750 gp ~ Cure Ser. Wounds (750 gp, avg 18.5 hp)
Elixir of healing 7d6 (avg 24.5 hp) ~ 1,400 gp ~ hypothetical 4th level potion (1,400 gp, avg 25.0 hp)
Elixir of healing 9d6 (avg 31.5 hp) ~ 2,250 gp ~ hypothetical 5th level potion (2,250 gp, avg 31.5 hp)

From which we can derive the progression (#dice + 1) * #dice * 25 gp, or:
1d6: 25 * 2 * 1 = 50 gp
2d6: 25 * 3 * 2 = 150 gp
3d6: 25 * 4 * 3 = 300 gp
4d6: 25 * 5 * 4 = 500 gp
5d6: 25 * 6 * 5 = 750 gp
6d6: 25 * 7 * 6 = 1,050 gp
7d6: 25 * 8 * 7 = 1,400 gp
8d6: 25 * 9 * 8 = 1,800 gp
9d6: 25 * 10 * 9 = 2,250 gp
10d6: 25 * 11 * 10 = 2,750 gp.

 

[GamerImp]

Your solution isn't bad, either. The progression is unfortunately close to "whole cloth", not relying on the existing spell level / caster level style cost generation, but it does produce results that are close to the existing healing potions.

Interestingly, your solution is flipped in efficiency from mine. Under your's, elixirs are "overpriced" compared to potions at low levels, but then roughly equalize and stay usable much longer. (My system assumes that, like normal healing potions, parties completely ignore CLW/CMW/CSW past a certain level.)

 

[Matthias]

I agree that in a general sense we should try to use the existing tools in the box rather than attempt to reinvent the wheel everytime we want to build something new. I like that you deducted a level from the die total and used that as an ad hoc 'spell level' and it worked out pretty well.

The issue with these elixirs is redundancy/competition with traditional cure-wounds potions. Ideally, we want to find a niche for everything, so that there is always potential for innovation.

The non-potion elixirs have the advantage of expansion beyond the normal limits of potions. Brew Potion, though equal in minimum caster level in prerequisite to Craft Wondrous Item is somewhat more specialized in terms of the variety of magic items that can be produced (potions with a one-time spell effect vs. the entire range of wondrous items). The elixirs of healing should not make the cure potions obsolete, so the elixirs need to be less cost effective. If we used your method of market price calculation but applied a ratio of 1:1 for dice:spell level, we get an alternative healing item that heals less for the same amount of money as a potion, but without the spell level cap. This is where the elixirs should best fit into the existing arrangement. And at any rate, the prices I had generated for the upper tier of healing elixirs seemed a little cheap to me.

Applying the formula NumberOfDice * CasterLevel * 50 gp, we get:

Elixir of healing 1d6: CL 1 * 1 die * 50 gp = 50 gp
Elixir of healing 2d6: CL 3 * 2 dice * 50 gp = 300 gp
Elixir of healing 3d6: CL 5 * 3 dice * 50 gp = 750 gp
Elixir of healing 4d6: CL 7 * 4 dice * 50 gp = 1,400 gp
Elixir of healing 5d6: CL 9 * 5 dice * 50 gp = 2,250 gp
Elixir of healing 6d6: CL 11 * 6 dice * 50 gp = 3,300 gp
Elixir of healing 7d6: CL 13 * 7 dice * 50 gp = 4,550 gp
Elixir of healing 8d6: CL 15 * 8 dice * 50 gp = 6,000 gp
Elixir of healing 9d6: CL 17 * 9 dice * 50 gp = 7,650 gp
Elixir of healing 10d6: CL 19 * 10 dice * 50 gp = 9,500 gp.

It is certainly possible no cleric would ever want to make a low-tier elixir when he could save his channel energy uses and make a potion instead...but whatever method is used to calculate the healing elixir market price, it must be applied consistently for the entire range.

To apply a little in-game logic: evil clerics and neutral negative-channeling clerics cannot make elixirs of healing (but could make 'cursed' elixirs that store negative energy instead, I suppose) so they will be limited to using potions of cure wounds. This means that even if elixirs were entirely superior to cure potions, the world's population of potions vs. elixirs would still be tipped toward potions.

Adventuring parties and good-aligned clerics would certainly be aware of this (or they should), and they are only too happy to liberate these extra cure potions from their former owners. Thus there would be expected to be a glut of cure potions compared to healing elixirs, even if elixirs can be made that help you a lot more than the best cure potion ever could.

To offset this imbalance in supply, perhaps an Elixir of Healing could also be deployable as a grenadelike weapon against undead or as a "ranged heal" against living allies...

When thrown at a creature or on the ground, the destination square (and any creature in it) takes the normal amount of positive energy contained in the flask (as though it were imbibed rather than splashed).

Nearby squares are also flooded with positive energy equal to the number of d6's taken by the destination square, minus 1d6 for each square of distance from it, out to a maximum radius of 30 ft away (the normal range for a Channel Energy effect). For example, a creature 15 feet away from a thrown 10d6 flask would take (10d6 - 3d6) = 7d6 positive energy. Creatures damaged by positive energy are allowed a Will save to take half damage (DC equal to 10 + half the elixir's caster level). Creatures occupying multiple squares in the area of effect take positive energy only from the square they occupy that is nearest to the destination square.

It's darkly humorous to imagine an army of badguys engaged in mass production of elixirs of channel negative energy. Their evil plan: throw these necromancy bombs at formations of low-level soldiers, or perhaps attached them to the tips of arrows or javelins to be wielded by badguy snipers, or even incorporate them into subterranean traps... hmmmmm

 

[Scott DeWar]

It's darkly humorous to imagine an army of badguys engaged in mass production of elixirs of channel negative energy. Their evil plan: throw these necromancy bombs at formations of low-level soldiers, or perhaps attached them to the tips of arrows or javelins to be wielded by badguy snipers, or even incorporate them into subterranean traps... hmmmmm
[/quot]
you give me evil ideas! thank you!