Elven Accuracy + attack twice powers

[amadeus-darkened]

I've always ran with option number 2, but honestly the ruling definitely lies with you (the DM).

Also, to give my personal opinion on whether to announce whether it is a hit or a miss:

If I ask the halfling if a nineteen hits her AC, and for the sake of argument lets say it does, she knows the attack hit her, but can use her racial power Second Chance.

To keep balance between the two powers I play it the same, when the elf asks me if an eighteen beats somebodies reflex and I say no, he then (once again this is at my table, not an official ruling) has the option of using Elven Accuracy.

 

[CapnZapp]

I sense that all of you are assuming you must use Elven Accuracy (or not) right when you roll the dice.

The power doesn't say anything of the sort:

Elven Accuracy
Encounter
Free Action Personal
Effect: Reroll an attack roll. Use the second roll, even if it’s lower.

I can only conclude you can make a twin strike (both attacks), then shift, draw a potion, mark a new Quarry or anything else really.

Then (while its still your turn, assuming you can take free actions on your turn only, and dismissing the possibility that the power might allow you a re-roll of an attack three rounds ago) you can invoke Elven Accuracy as a free action, and re-roll one attack. Presumably you'd choose one that missed, but that's up to you.

In fact, I can't see that you're required to still reach the foe for which you're re-rolling the attack.

Yes, this is sloppy. The power should have "You making an attack" as a trigger, so as to be keyed to a specific attack.

While all of this might be obvious to the casual reader, it makes it impossible to reach a consensus on what the RAW say. Because according to the RAW, the power is far more flexible, powerful and supernatural than any interpretation common sense can arrive at.


Cheers,
Zapp

 

[CapnZapp]

I can add I'm going for suggestion 2 myself. I honestly think this comes closest to what was intended.

But again, this can only be a house-rule and nothing more, at least until the power is officially errataed.

 

[GoLu]

#2 is probably more accurate to what is intended, but it's consistently slower than #1 and it probably doesn't make much of a difference most of the time. I'd say don't sweat it and go with #1, except maybe in specific circumstances where it really matters.

Incidentally, when does the ranger pick targets for twin strike? Both up front, or one before each attack?

 

[amadeus-darkened]

In response to GoLu:

Although I've never really checked the 4th Edition ruleset to see I've been assuming that it works similar to 3.5, a sometimes dangerous assumption I know. That is to say that you pick a target before each attack, not before each target. If the ranger wants to attack a kobold slinger and his first attack drops the slinger I don't care whether he said he was going to attack him twice or not, I offer the chance to attack another opponent rather than a sack of flesh.

 

[Caliban]

Players Handbook, page 269

MAKING AN ATTACK
All attacks follow the same basic process:
1. Choose the attack you’ll use. Each attack has an attack type.
2. Choose targets for the attack (page 272). Each target must be within range (page 273). Check whether you can see and target your enemies (page 273).
3. Make an attack roll (page 273).
4. Compare your attack roll to the target’s defense (page 274) to determine whether you hit or miss.
5. Deal damage and apply other effects (page 276).

Looks like you must select targets before making attack rolls for the power.

 

[GoLu]

Does that mean twin strike works like this?
step 1: "I use twin strike"
step 2: "I attack these two kobolds; the minion and the big one with the spear"
step 3: "I roll a 15 against this one and a 6 against this one"
step 4: "First one hits, second misses"
step 5: "This kobold takes 12 damage, the other takes 0"

So any effects that trigger on damage have to wait until the very end of the multi-attack power, after all the other attacks have either hit or miss? Interesting.

Assuming I'm not getting attacks and attack powers confused.

 

[Caliban]

Does that mean twin strike works like this?
step 1: "I use twin strike"
step 2: "I attack these two kobolds; the minion and the big one with the spear"
step 3: "I roll a 15 against this one and a 6 against this one"
step 4: "First one hits, second misses"
step 5: "This kobold takes 12 damage, the other takes 0"

So any effects that trigger on damage have to wait until the very end of the multi-attack power, after all the other attacks have either hit or miss? Interesting.

Assuming I'm not getting attacks and attack powers confused.

That's why strikers can wait until all attacks have resolved before adding their extra striker damage (sneak attack, quarry, curse, etc.)

 

[amadeus-darkened]

Thanks for digging that out for us Caliban, that will straighten out a lot of questions at my table.

 

[Kordeth]

Players Handbook, page 269


Looks like you must select targets before making attack rolls for the power.

I disagree. That's the sequence for a single attack. Twin Strike says quite plainly in the power description that it's two attacks. You would follow that full sequence for the first attack, and after it's resolved start over from step 1 for the second attack.