Encounter idea - vs player-like NPCs?

[draquila]

I'm thinking of creating an encounter for my newbie 4e party that involves them fighting against a team that is very similar to their own party.

I'm hoping to

• create a challenging encounter, but not overwhelm them;
• show them how a basic team works together effectively;
• make it fun and unique.

I already have an idea of how this fits into the overall plot of this campaign, however I'm a little worried about the balance.

I am pretty sure my party won't be able to handle an equivalent party of 5 NPCs with the same abilities as them. I'm thinking of creating an NPC party of 4 (defender, controller, leader, striker - one less than their party) that is 1 or 2 levels lower than them, with 1 at-will and encounter power each. I mainly want to demonstrate marking, healing, positioning, and OAs etc., so I'd like to play the NPC party as close to real PCs as possible.

Do you guys think this is a good idea, and do you have any tips in terms of making this work?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Your idea seems appropriate at first glance.

 

[BrokeAndDrive]

I've heard through the grapevine that PCs are somewhat equivalent to elite monsters. Though that may be a bit much to face (like tossing two solos or ten standards).

 

[aco175]

Remember that npc's spend their daily powers like encounter powers, while pc's may save some for future encounters. You may want to limit the recharge powers you give. It would be just one more thing to keep track of.

Twice now I ran the party into a fight of similar power npc's, I think once it was shadow clones of them exactly (3.5 days though). I let each character run one of the others or their own shadow npc to attack party pcs. All but one player got into it and did not hold any punches, while the one tried some silly stuff in an effort to show off and fudge to the pc's advantage. All in all it worked out fine. In 4th edition ir may make for a lev+2 or +3 encounter.

 

[keterys]

What level are your PCs?

Also, are they really bad at playing? Wishing to throw very reduced power versions of them (lower level, less powers), with one less enemy, certainly sounds like it, I mean.

Otherwise, it sounds like you're setting up too easy of a fight.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

PCs as opponents is horribly swingy. At level 1 for instance a great weapon fighter using a great sword and using Brute Strike has an expected damage of 3d10+4 or 20 points of damage on average and a max of 34 points. This is ALMOST enough to fell a defender, most leaders, and practically all strikers and controllers. A bow ranger with Twin Strike and a Great Bow could easily dish out 2d12+1d6, again average 16.5 damage with a max of 30, which is enough to instantly fell some character and would nearly fell even the toughest and he can do that every round.

The fight can easily turn out like enemy party gets a bit lucky and 2 of their number go first, probably the bow ranger and an equally dangerous rogue. The party defender's first action could easily be a death save.

Obviously on average the PCs will win if the other party is weaker, its just a lot less certain than with a more typical type of encounter vs monsters. Its probably no worse than springing 5 orcs on an AD&D party of 5, but I have seen TPKs in THAT scenario. You should be prepared to have one here. As long as that's OK, go for it.

However, I would really recommend stating out the enemy monster-style. Less damage output, simpler powers, lower defenses on average, and just a lot easier to run. For a starting out level 1 group 5 standard level 1 monsters should challenge them. Just theme them like PCs. The 'fighter' monster can mark and has an immediate interrupt to punish a mark, the 'rogue' gets +2d6 damage if it has CA, the 'ranger' can use HQ and makes 2 attacks/rnd, the 'cleric' grants his allies +2 to the next attack vs anyone he hits with his mace, and the 'wizard' shoots magic missile, scorching burst, and has an encounter power that can immobilize 1 or 2 targets for a round. It will FEEL like a party of adventurers, but it will be MUCH easier to run and a lot less swingy.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

He said, that the clones get one at-will and one encounter, no dailies, and i hope no action point.

Those PC-NPCs will go down in a singel round when the PC´s use all their daily powers and APs

 

[Dice4Hire]

I would strongly suggest just reskinning monsters of the appropriate types to serve as an opposing "Adventuring Party"

If needed, you can add the class templates to them to make them feel more "class-like" if that is needed.

One of the things I like about 4E is that monsters are monsters, not player characters.

Plus, reskinning is fun in 4E

 

[Jhaelen]

Do you guys think this is a good idea, and do you have any tips in terms of making this work?

No. I'd say more but that's really all I can think of. The pc rules just aren't meant to work as opponents for a single encounter.

 

[ExploderWizard]

My current campaign features quite a few "PC like" NPC's. The way I handle them mechanically is to use the monster builder and start with a "monster" base template of same race. I will add and substitute powers from PC classes to the NPC in order to give them a feel similar to the class I'm trying to emulate. Some daily type powers can become rechargeable for elite/ tougher NPC's.

There is nothing quite like the look of shock on a player's face when some of their favorite staple powers are used against them. The groans of doom heard heard round the table when an evil enemy ranger uses -DISRUPTIVE STRIKE!! was worth every moment of monster builder design time.