Encounter with a good aligned vampire, what do you do?

[KahnyaGnorc]

Except that it is already posited that the vampire is good aligned. Railing about the rules does not change the fact that part of the operational parameters of the question is that the vampire is good aligned. And that a past edition of D&D has already had a good aligned vampire, though that was caused by a helm of opposite alignment.

This is a matter that is setting based, and, in the case of Eberron, 'Always' becomes 'Usually', Usually' becomes 'Often', etc.. The setting has a Lawful Good red dragon for the love of mud! (Also 'Always Chaotic Evil'.) And let us be honest, for a Lawful Good religion the Silver Flame takes some awfully draconian measures.

The Auld Grump

Ravenloft/Forgotten Realms also had Jander Sunstar.

 

[Mark CMG]

Except that it is already posited that the vampire is good aligned. Railing about the rules does not change the fact that part of the operational parameters of the question is that the vampire is good aligned.

I think the point being that a paladin written/created under the RAW isn't going to see such houserules so it is hard to expect the player of such a character to be held to the former/original standard.

 

[prosfilaes]

Attacking someone because they got too close to you is not good behavior. Once she's decided that it's better to do that then be cured, she is no longer a good character. It would deeply annoy me that someone who is an active danger to all life--of her own free will, since we've established that she wouldn't change if she could--gets protected by what would feel to me to be DM fiat.

Why should his players have the meta-information that vampires could be good?

I can play where certain creatures are evil, and we kill them. I can play where I don't just kill orcs and vampires on sight. But I've really got to know upfront what the rules are for this game, and I'm going to be very unhappy if my paladin gets punished if I feel you changed the rules.

IMO, a good Knowledge (Religion) check should clear up a lot of this. It should tell you whether undead are invariably evil, and whether your god cares. (I suspect a paladin of Kelemvor would destroy this vampire; undead are to be destroyed, not coddled.)

 

[Numlock]

I can play where certain creatures are evil, and we kill them. I can play where I don't just kill orcs and vampires on sight. But I've really got to know upfront what the rules are for this game, and I'm going to be very unhappy if my paladin gets punished if I feel you changed the rules.

I'm not saying the paladin should be punished if he killed this vampire, just because they are both good. This is a fundamental problem with the DnD alignment system, which I will not elaborate on further, so not to hijack this thread, but the choice should be made on a character level and not on a player level. This whole good vampire attacking the barbarian thing is a bit of a gray area, so here a nice black and white example.


A paladin, named Bob, walks through town. There he meets this beautiful, but somewhat pale lass named Alice. Bob and Alice fall in love, and he asks her to marry him. She says yes! On the night of their wedding, she admitted to him that she is a vampire. Bob slays her on the spot. When he is arrested by the town guards (Alice was very much loved by the townsfolk) he says: "She was a vampire, and the MM says they're all evil. I'm a paladin, I have to slay evil beings."

(Note: Bob's creed isn't that specific, he just has to purge evil and what not. Alice is the only vampire in this world that is good, the rest is totally evil all the way).

If Bob's player would now complain to the DM that he's being punished for doing something that would be a good deed according to the rules, I hope we would all agree that Bob's player is a total idiot.

The DM had no reason to 'publish' the 'house-rule' that vampires could be good, because none of the characters know this. If I was said DM, I'd keep the vampire alignment thing very much a secret, because otherwise I'd give incentive to meta-gaming.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Vampires eat people, and are made out of experience points. Kill it and take its loot.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

But if Pally Bob goes and does a Detect Evil then they know that either Alice ain't evil or has a means to disguise her evil.

In the example that you gave Pally Bob the Idiot would likely be stretched, right quick. She was a local, he wasn't. On the other hand, if he can show that she was a vampire, and there had been an unexplained epidemic of anemia in the town.... (More often both 'vampires' and their 'victims' suffered from consumptive tuberculosis - a surprising number of corpses were exhumed and executed in Rhode Island during one outbreak of TB...). Bob will be tried in the court of public opinion as well as the courts magistrate.

Then again, I liked Matheson's I am Legend (the book, not any of the movies) where the protagonist is considered the monster at the end of the story - striking during the day when the vamps are helpless, and murdering them in their sleep. He had become legend.

Alignments are only as confining as the setting, the players, and the DM allows them to be. But murder of someone you know to be one of the good guys... the Pally's god/ess might have something to say about that.

For my homebrew vampires are monsters, just as Dr, Harold Shipman was a monster. They were monsters before they became vampires, and willingly chose their path. (Also not RAW for D&D.) For Eberron, I would have a lot more leeway. Heck, one of the big baddies is a vampire pushing for peace - not because he is good (he ain't) but because war hurts his plans..... (Yeah, I like Eberron....)

In a Vampire LARP I played a vampire with True Faith. (A Nos, but also a nice guy, in life he was a scumbag.) In other games vamps would never have this.

In a game RAW must give way to setting, at least in its minor aspects.

And I agree with the comment that a player going by the MM is metagaming, and needs to be hit upside the head with a clue bat.

The Auld Grump, who once had a party hanged for murdering an orc....

 

[scourger]

She has to be redeemed or destroyed, preferably both since she sounds like a DMPC. There are several good ideas for that upthread.

Meanwhile, call her "Angel", make her a love interest and eventually give her her own show.

Or, call her "Spike", make her a love interest, and keep her around for the series finale.

Or, call her "Blade", show her redemption in the first movie, give her a love interest (that seems to be a theme) that dies in the second movie, and introduce lots of plucky sidekicks in the third movie (but the mentor can't come back!). Maybe the plucky sidekicks are the PCs.

Or, call her Selene, put her at war with werewolves (lycans), give her a love interest that starts as human but become a half-vampire half-lycan uber character, and then have her resolve her daddy issues with her sire Viktor (easily portrayed by the most powerful actor in the film) with his own sword. (But the follow-up movie won't be as good so don't go there.)

 

[baradtgnome]

My neutral good cleric would thank her for her help, and laud her for her attempts to follow the 'right' path. Then I would help her design a path to salvation (which MUST involved becoming a non-vampire regardless of method), and risk my life to help her get there. If she refused salvation, I would destroy her utterly, pray for her soul, and be sad.

As a DM, I would make sure the players understood their latitudes in alignment before presenting them with such a quandary. I do like moral dilemmas however. Nicely done if you have prepared them properly.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Good or evil, doesn't matter. It's undead and must be destroyed.

 

[Aeolius]

The Auld Grump, who once had a party hanged for murdering an orc....

I once reincarnated a slain PC, his dire enemies being kobolds and his assailant being a kobold... as a kobold.

Good or evil, doesn't matter. It's undead and must be destroyed.

"Mum...Dad... Don't touch it! It's evil!"

Granted, the main protagonist NPC in all of my online games, the closest thing I have to a Mary Sue, is a neutrally-aligned night hag. And that isn't that big a stretch as she was was created with 1e rules, where her kin are N(E).