Energy Draining and Negitive Levels... how to after a failed save?

[magnusmalkus]

From the SRD...

A creature takes the following penalties for each negative level it has gained:

-1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
-1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
-5 hit points.
-1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).
If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level.
Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ draining creature’s racial HD + draining creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level goes away, but the creature’s level is also reduced by one. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.

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SOOOO... I have a good understanding on what to do to a character sheet when a character gets Energy Drained. Where I'm confused is what happens after the PC fails the Saving throw. How do you reduce the characters level by one?

Do you just undo everything you gained at the previous level? Un-applying the advancement in BAB, Saves, spells/slots per day is easy enough, but what about HP? Does this mean we're supposed to record how many hp's we gain at each level so in the event of a negitive level, we can undo it easily? Do we subtract the whole die's worth of hit dice (8 hps for cleric, 4 for wizard, etc...)? Do we roll to see how many HP we loose from the level drain? Does that mean when we gain enough xp to make the level back, we have the chance to wind up with more or less hp than we had last time we made the level? Do wizards and sorcerers get to choose new/different spells when they regain the level? If it was a feat level, is the feat entirely wiped away, do we get to pick a different one when we regain the level?

Help please!

 

[Alisair Longreach]

Permanent level drain is one rule element of D&D that I as a player really hates. It nullifies several hours or sessions of gameplay and severely hampers my PCs ability to survive future adventures. It is anti-fun.

As a DM permanent level drain is very annoying because it involves punitive bookkeeping and destroys the players fun.

A simple house rule I alwyas use and try to persuade/coerce my DMs into adopting is that a saving throw to avoid permanent level drain is always succesfull. Don't roll, avoid the bookkeeping and game on.

Subtracting a level worth of hit points is awkward. Was the hit point roll noted when leveling up? Roll for permamnet hit point loss? What about Wealth by Level limits?

 

[billd91]

By the RAW, I believe all changes are wiped away. That theoretically means you get to pick them all again, including making different choices, when you level-up again. That's one of the many reason's I've detested level draining ever since 1st edition.

In the games I run, the negative level just becomes permanent if you fail the 24-hour save, at least until you get a restoration cast on you.

 

[kenobi65]

By the RAW, I believe all changes are wiped away. That theoretically means you get to pick them all again, including making different choices, when you level-up again. That's one of the many reason's I've detested level draining ever since 1st edition.

Yup, I believe that's right. It's no different from being raised from the dead, and losing a level. (It's one reason why it's not a bad idea to keep a running tally of what you added, esp. HP and skill ranks, with each level.)

And, yes, you can make different choices when you level back up (though, the one that feels odd to me is when a wizard goes back up...does he get to change what's in his spellbook?)

 

[frankthedm]

wipe all benefits of leveling up. XP goes 1/2 way between minimum for the new level and the amount needed for the level just lost.

 

[EvilMountainDew]

It's much easier just to say that after 24 hours, if you fail the save the effects of the prior 24hrs stick around until Restored. It's a half-way point between just saying you pass and actually going with RAW.

 

[Legildur]

Except for the loss of actual xps to the midway point of the previous level, the carrying of a negative level is in many ways worse than the actual negative level.

One of the WotC designers has a neat houserule that essentially maintains the negative level and lets you 'buy it off', though I don't remember which designer nor the buy off rules.

On a side note, a lower level character earns xps faster under the 3.5E system. Small consolation, I know.

If I were a DM, I'd insist on a saving throw each day until passed. But I would probably increase the DC by 1 each time. So there would still be a chance of permanent loss, but unlikely to happen in reality.

 

[Herzog]

Also (disclaimer:this is from memory):
If you didn't record the exact number of hp rolled, skillpoints spent, and feats taken at the last level, and don't remember either, the following rules apply:

1. roll the appropriate HD, add or substract CON mod as normal, and then substract the total (with a minimum of 1, just as when adding hp).
2. substract ability increase if appropriate (yes, if you don't remember which one, you get to select it. )
3. substract appropriate number of skillpoints. Although you get to select which ones if you don't remember, highest go first!
4. remove feat(s) if appropriate. If you don't remember, you get to select which one to drop, but since some feats might lose their prerequisite when you loose the level, you can reconstruct which one it was most of the time.


That said, there's one thing that comes to mind that I can't remember:
What happens when you loose a level, then gain XP (enough to regain a lvl?) and then get the lvl Restored?

Herzog

 

[Kat']

What happens when you loose a level, then gain XP (enough to regain a lvl?) and then get the lvl Restored?

Absolutely nothing. Restoration simply has no effect.

IMO, the worse thing with negative levels is the fact that Restoration levels your XP down to the minimum needed to pretend being of that level. Meaning if you've 44999 XP (1 XP away from Level 10), suffer a level drain, and get restored, Restoration places you back to the BEGINNING of your Level 9, i.e. 36.000 XP. You actually lost 8.999 XP and had to pay for Restoration, adding insult to injury.