Energy Drains & +ECL Races Question

[Zenon]

I have a question about how Energy Drains & races that have an ECL interact.

For example, say I have a 3rd level centaur fighter (3 ftr +7ECL Centaur = equivalent 10th level character).

The above centaur fighter is attacked by two vampires. In the first round, both vampires use their Slam attack, hit and drain 2 negative levels each (total of 4 negative levels applied).

What would happen? Do I count the centaur as having 10 character levels (ECL 10) and drain 4 of them, or do I simply count the 3 class levels (Ftr 3) and drain 4? If I do it the class level way, the centaur is slain, having been reduced to a zero level or below.

That's pretty harsh for a +7 ECL character. Several spells will also duplicate this (Enervation & Energy Drain), which turns a 4th level spell into an "insta-kill" spell vs. them on a good roll on a d4.

Is there an "offical" way of handling this anywhere in the books or FAQ? How are other DMs handling this that have +ECL races in their campaigns?

 

[MerakSpielman]

I don't know.


But here's another question:
What happens when you energy drain a creature without any levels at all? If it fails its permenant level loss save, does it just die?

 

[Mordane76]

From what I've read, a monster PC is considered to have X levels in its MONSTER class, and X levels in its PC classes. So, if this situation arose, I'd say that the ECL are considered part of its character levels, and should be drained as such, instead of just counting PC class levels.

As for something with zero levels (a NPC or a monster that hasn't gained any character levels), I would also go with the above explanation ---> you drain ECL levels before you kill the creature. If the victim is ECL 1, and has no levels... 1 level of level drain is sufficient to kill it.

 

[MerakSpielman]

So if you permenantly drain an ECL level, does the target lose a Hit Die?

If it gains enough XP, does it get it back? There are no rules specifically written for the XP advancement of creatures with no classes. It seems that after it got XP, it would have to spend them on a character class, and its monster level would be gone forever.

I think the question is, are there any official rules on the subject, or are we free to wander in the territory of "what I would do"?

 

[AuraSeer]

The ECL is moot. Your centaur has 7 energy levels.

For monsters without levels, energy drain affects HD. A centaur with no class levels has four hit dice, so it takes 4 negative levels to slay him. Advance him by three levels, and that's 3 more levels which can be drained from him. 4 + 3 = 7.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

First of all each and every creature has at least one HD, considering this, there is at least one LVL that you can each creature, but still u have to guess that some creatures are immun to LVL drain (e.g. Undead, Constructs).
If you drain a creature/character more or as much HD/LVL as it currently posseses it is automatically slain.
Furthermore will the creature lose 1 point of constitution if raised, by raise dead, reincarnate or ressurrection and posseses one HD/LV. If raised with true ressurrection however, it will be still only LVL 1 but wouldn't suffer the CON-Loss.
In your case with ECL, only the creatures HD/LV in a class count, the ECL is only hampering your character progression, it has absolutely no benefit and no other drawback then needing more EXP to advance.
And to say it once again your centaur would be dead if he suffers more than 2 negative LVLs.

 

[Zenon]

Ahh, I guess it was the "drain 2 character level" in the energy drain description that was throwing me off. I'll have to remember HD+LV.

Thanks!

 

[Mordane76]

A much better thought than what I had, AuraSeer and Black Knight... I hadn't thought out the full implications of basing it on ECL.

I don't think anywhere they've set down a "What Does Energy Drain Do" line of thought in a WotC book. Does anyone know of a source with such material?

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Something I have forgotten are the starting 4 HD that each centaur has, so my corrected answer is: if he suffers ever more than 6 negative LVLs he will die instantly, this is still based on the facts that the centaur has 4 base HD and 3 class LVLs if you andvance further, there must be more negative LVLs applied to kill you.

 

[Xarlen]

What happens if the character has no Monster HD? Such as a Half-dragon, or a Tiefling? They are ECL, but their HD is that of class levels.

I'd say once their class levels go, BANG, dead. Any opposition?