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Epic Challenges
- Thread starter styker
- Start date
pogre
Legend
styker said:
I'm gathering that you are fishing for ideas for an epic adventure. This post is more appropriate to the general forum. May I be permitted to rephrase the question as I think you intended it?
I am running an epic-level campaign where the PCs are about to travel into the Abyss. Do you have any ideas for challenging my 21st level party?
Or perhaps you are asking about appropriate ELs and CRs - I just cannot be certain.
Trying to be helpful, not snarky BTW.
Celebrim
Legend
The Abyss itself?
I mean, it's the Abyss.
If there is anything that is an epic challenge by definition, it's the Abyss. The Abyss is sort of the catch all place for everything and every idea that is too dangerous to exist in the campaign. Think of all the worst things you can think of. If a PC party can reasonably be expected to handle them, they aren't in the Abyss.
Get a list of the mapped planes for some ideas. Let your imagination run wild. There is just about nothing that in the monster manual that you can't double the HD, add the fiendish and multiheaded templates too, and throw at the party. Tribes of Fiendish Multi-Headed Huge Dire Apes? There in there. Hordes of Half-Fiend Gray Renders? Hiding under every other boulder. Multi-headed Marilith Sorcerer 20's? Serving as slaves to something that is actually dangerous. Dretch are as common as rats. Demons are as common as orcs. Try this one. "You are under attack by a horde of at least 300 Vrocks, and more than 600 Dretches." (Actually 66 Vrocks using mirror images, but whose counting). No, don't try that. It's far too much dice rolling, and players of 21st level characters are often too stupid to run away.
And that's to say nothing about the fact that there are whole planes were everything is a living spell, others were everything in the plain is an animated object possessed by an evil will, others where the enter infinite plain is the maw of some unfathomable monster that regularly masticates the entire plane of existance, still others where the entire plain is an infinite swarm of fiendish centipedes - sort of like living in a creeping doom, and others that are infinitely filled with skeletons of every size being chewed in the maws of Nightcrawlers of colossol size.
It's not a nice place.
Actually, I'd have problems toning down the Abyss to where it was survivable by mere 21st level characters. Why do you want to go to the Abyss anyway? It's not exactly known as a vacation spot.
I mean, it's the Abyss.
If there is anything that is an epic challenge by definition, it's the Abyss. The Abyss is sort of the catch all place for everything and every idea that is too dangerous to exist in the campaign. Think of all the worst things you can think of. If a PC party can reasonably be expected to handle them, they aren't in the Abyss.
Get a list of the mapped planes for some ideas. Let your imagination run wild. There is just about nothing that in the monster manual that you can't double the HD, add the fiendish and multiheaded templates too, and throw at the party. Tribes of Fiendish Multi-Headed Huge Dire Apes? There in there. Hordes of Half-Fiend Gray Renders? Hiding under every other boulder. Multi-headed Marilith Sorcerer 20's? Serving as slaves to something that is actually dangerous. Dretch are as common as rats. Demons are as common as orcs. Try this one. "You are under attack by a horde of at least 300 Vrocks, and more than 600 Dretches." (Actually 66 Vrocks using mirror images, but whose counting). No, don't try that. It's far too much dice rolling, and players of 21st level characters are often too stupid to run away.
And that's to say nothing about the fact that there are whole planes were everything is a living spell, others were everything in the plain is an animated object possessed by an evil will, others where the enter infinite plain is the maw of some unfathomable monster that regularly masticates the entire plane of existance, still others where the entire plain is an infinite swarm of fiendish centipedes - sort of like living in a creeping doom, and others that are infinitely filled with skeletons of every size being chewed in the maws of Nightcrawlers of colossol size.
It's not a nice place.
Actually, I'd have problems toning down the Abyss to where it was survivable by mere 21st level characters. Why do you want to go to the Abyss anyway? It's not exactly known as a vacation spot.
Bernardus
First Post
Do you have a copy of the Book of Vile Darkness?
Within that book there are some ideas about what's living there.
Demons who live in the Abyss love to attack anything just for fun even other Demons.
So the big evil dudes are the Balors there, so watch out for those guys.
Remember there is also the Blood War, so watch out for that.
Within the Book of Vile Darkness there are some Demonlords so beware that the party don't encounter those guys.
That's somthings you have to remember when a party is walking the planes of the Abyss.
But as DM you know the strengths and weaknesses of the party so you can exploit those.
Hope this helps a little bit.
Gr.
Bernardus
Within that book there are some ideas about what's living there.
Demons who live in the Abyss love to attack anything just for fun even other Demons.
So the big evil dudes are the Balors there, so watch out for those guys.
Remember there is also the Blood War, so watch out for that.
Within the Book of Vile Darkness there are some Demonlords so beware that the party don't encounter those guys.
That's somthings you have to remember when a party is walking the planes of the Abyss.
But as DM you know the strengths and weaknesses of the party so you can exploit those.
Hope this helps a little bit.
Gr.
Bernardus
Thank you very much everybody. Celebrim:
They are going to abyss to rescue a friend that is imprisioned inside of stone. They don't know the layer where the stone is (trully in the layer 596th) so they have to find a way to solve this problem and a way to get there because they don't have the rod that is the focus to the planar travel spell to the 596th layer, just to the abyss in general, so they could jump in any layer and this is a problem.
Some solutions:
- find someone with the specifically rod to the 596th layer.
- find help in the epic planar union city (they don't know the city yet, neither the players neither the characters)
-or use a portal in the styx river in the first layer with a yugoloth...
What do you think?
They are going to abyss to rescue a friend that is imprisioned inside of stone. They don't know the layer where the stone is (trully in the layer 596th) so they have to find a way to solve this problem and a way to get there because they don't have the rod that is the focus to the planar travel spell to the 596th layer, just to the abyss in general, so they could jump in any layer and this is a problem.
Some solutions:
- find someone with the specifically rod to the 596th layer.
- find help in the epic planar union city (they don't know the city yet, neither the players neither the characters)
-or use a portal in the styx river in the first layer with a yugoloth...
What do you think?
Celebrim
Legend
First, it seems to me that they have to find out that the stone is on the 596th layer. That in itself is a mini-quest. For me, the hardest part of designing an adventure in the abyss is that no inhabitant will willingly help you unless you do something for them that is intrinsically evil. There is only so many times you can play the card of the PC's finding a non-evil being trapped in the Abyss that needs rescue, first because non-evil things tend to get eaten on the Abyss and secondly because non-evil beings tend to go mad in Abyss and end up (after some time) as CE beings and most importantly because it will get tiresome.
The 596th is an unmapped layer. No gates or rods to enter it are known to mortals at this time.
The closest layer to the 596th that might have some information about how to get in it are the Mad God's Prison on the 586th and the Endless Labyrinth on the 600th.
The Savants of the Mad God on the 586th might have divined where a rod or gate for entering the 596th lies. Getting them to help is another matter.
Some suggestions about the 586th.
The 586th is intrinsically evil and chaotic in nature and is incomprehensible to lawful and good aligned beings. Good beings suffer a -2 penalty to effective INT,WIS, and CHR while there. Lawful beings suffer a -2 penalty to effective INT, WIS, and CHR while there. These penalties are cumulative. Spells with either the Good or Law descriptor automatically fail unless the caster has divine rank.
The 586th is intrinsically dark. Beings requiring light to see are at a great disadvantage. Any spellcaster wishing to cast a spell that creates light must make a DC 40 caster level check as if the caster was trying to overcome SR 40. Any existing spell effect which sheds light is struck by a Greater Dispelling as if cast by 40th level spell caster as soon as it is brought into the plane. Apply this effect to the permanent effects of a magical item as well as this effect also will surpress light shedding magic items for the duration of thier time on the plane. Whether or not the light spell is successful, attempting to cast one automatically on the plane summons a Night Walker to the area (see stat block below). Normal light sources such as torches, lamps, ect. function normally, but thier light penetrates only half as far. Any light brought to the plane reveals that the eternal darkness masks that everything on the plane is continually changing hue in a mad cacophony of color. Darkvision works as normal.
The 586th is a prison plane. Any being that enters the 586th is unable to leave again by normal means, just as if they had been effected by a dimensional anchor spell, unless they have divine rank 6 or similar prowess. To exit the prison requires finding a portal with a direct connection to another plane. Finding a portal out is not easy. The entire plane is a 3D maze which - to a mortal mind - will look like an Escher Painting of infinite staircases running in perspective defying directions. Size, distance, and direction have no meaning on the 586th. Any being with less than 30 intelligence becomes immediately lost in the plane and unable to return to anywhere that they have been before. Also, triple the penalty for firing a ranged weapon over a number of range increments to -6 per range increment.
Generally speaking, all inhabitants of the plane are always lost and unable to find each other after they have become separated. Permenant attachments to any place or person are generally impossible. Keeping the party together is a must. If the party ever loses LOS on its members, they will never find each other again no matter how small of a distance initially separates them. A party without any ability to see automatically becomes separated unless they rope themselves together in some fashion before entering the plane. Divinations which aid in finding paths are subject to the same restrictions as light spells. The maze is designed such that only a lawful mind can escape from it. The time to escape depends on the alignment of the person as shown in the chart below:
LG: 50 minutes
LN, NG: 50 hours
LE, CG, N: 50 days
NE, CN: 50 months
CE: Never
A portal will never be found so long as there is a CE member of the party. Portals lead back to higher levels of the Abyss. Roll a d1000. If the result is 586 or higher, the portal leads to the 1st level. Otherwise, it leads to the level indicated. 90% of the portals are one way.
Beings on the 586th require neither food, water, or air. You cannot suffocate or starve on the 586th.
The 586th imprisons the mad god of the Derro - Diinkarazan, who is cursed only to regain his sanity only on one day in every 50 years, simply so as he can occassionally comprehend the magnitude of his torment. The rest of the time, he rages about the plane searching for a way out of the trap. His ravings cause the following effects:
Once per hour (50% chance): Diinkarazan smashes a portion of the plane in rage. Party suffers the effects of an Earthquake spell cast underground as the nearby portions of the maze collapse into a jumbled heap. This is a CR 8 hazard. Jumbled regions of the maze are fairly common, and serve as refuges for smaller creatures in the plane - particularly Derro and Fiendish Dire Mole Rats (see below). Entering them is particularly dangerous because the smaller spaces make it easier to lose line of sight on your comrades.
Once every 10 minutes (50% chance): Diinkarazan howls his anguish. Every non-insane member of the plane is struck by a Power Word: Stun. This is a CR 8 hazard if it occurs when the party is in the vicinity of a native of the plain. Many natives will take advantage of the parties discomfort to launch attacks.
Once per day (100% chance): Staying on the 586th drives one insane. For each day on the plane make Will save vs DC 5 + the number of days spent on the plane. If it fails, the character has gone slightly insane and his alignment shifts one degree toward CE. This effect may be considered a mind effecting spell. Note that this change in alignment makes the plain more difficult to leave, and ultimately will certainly permanently trap any mortal that lingers too long. This is a hazard equal in CR to the DC of the Will save.
Generally speaking, on the 586th its impossible for the party find anything - but things will find them. Keep in mind that direction has no meaning on the plane. Characters may find themselves attacked from areas above and below them. Many creatures on the plane will make skillful flanking attacks on the party.
Common encounters on the plane include:
Fiendish Dire Mole Rat Pack (5-30) : EL 11-16
Nightwalker (1-4): EL 16-20
Derro Petitioner Clan (1-1000): EL 5-25
Elite Derro Petitioner War Party (5-20): EL 18-23
Derro Petitioner Savant (1-6): EL 16-21
I should warn you that the following stat blocks are rough, and in particular the skills could be off by some ammount of points.
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Fiendish Dire Mole Rat: CR 6; Large Magical Beast; HD 9d8+18; hp 59; Init +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative); Spd 40 ft.; AC 18 (-1 Size, +3 Dex, +6 natural); Atk Bite +11 melee (1d8+6); SA Attach, blood drain, smite good; SQ Blindsight 30', Darkvision, DR 5/magic, Fire Resitance: 10, Cold Resistance: 10, SR 14, Scent; AL CE; SV Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +5; Str 18, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 11. Skills and Feats: Hide: +11, Move Silently +11, Spot +5; Weapon Focus (Bite), Teamwork, Improved Initiative
Attach (Ex)
A dire mole rat that hits with its bite attack latches onto the opponent’s body with its powerful jaws. An attached dire mole rat loses its Dexterity bonus to AC and thus has an AC of 15. An attached dire mole rat can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself. To remove an attached dire weasel through grappling, the opponent must achieve a pin against the creature.
Blood Drain (Ex)
A dire mole rat drains blood for 1d6 points of Constitution damage each round it remains attached.
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Attracted the area whenever a light producing spell is cast...
Gargantuan Fiendish Night Walker (Extraplanar, Chaotic, Evil); CR 22; 33d12+66 (271 hp); Initiative: +5; Speed: 40 ft (8 squares)., fly 20 ft. (clumsy); Armor Class: 33 (-4 size, +1 Dex, +26 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 32; Base Attack/Grapple: +16/+44; Attack: Slam +28 melee (2d8+18); Full Attack: 2 slams +28 melee (2d8+18); Space/Reach: 20 ft./20 ft.
Special Attacks: Crush item, desecrating aura, evil gaze, spell-like abilities, summon undead, smite good, Special Qualities: Aversion to daylight, damage reduction 15/magic, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to cold, fire resistance: 10, spell resistance 29, telepathy 100 ft., undead traits; Saves: Fort +13, Ref +12, Will +23; Abilities: Str 42, Dex 12, Con Ø, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 18; Skills: Concentration +42, Diplomacy +6, Hide +21*, Knowledge (arcana) +29, Listen +41, Move Silently +37, Search +41, Sense Motive +41, Spellcraft +31, Spot +41, Survival +5 (+7 following tracks) Feats: Awesome Blow, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Improved Bullrush, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Large and In Charge, Power Attack, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater dispell magic), Quicken Spell-Like Ability (unholy blight)
Crush Item (Su)
A nightwalker can destroy any weapon or item of Large size or smaller (even magic ones, but not artifacts) by picking it up and crushing it between its hands. The nightwalker must make a successful disarm attempt to grab an item held by an opponent. The item is entitled to a DC 36 Fortitude save to resist destruction. The save DC is Strength-based.
Evil Gaze (Su)
Fear, 30 feet. A creature that meets the nightwalker’s gaze must succeed on a DC 24 Will save or be paralyzed with fear for 1d8 rounds. Whether or not the save is successful, that creature cannot be affected again by the same nightshade’s gaze for 24 hours. This is a mind-affecting fear effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Spell-Like Abilities
At will—contagion (DC 18), deeper darkness, detect magic, greater dispel magic, haste, see invisibility, and unholy blight (DC 18); 3/day—confusion (DC 18), hold monster (DC 19), invisibility; 1/day—cone of cold (DC 19), finger of death (DC 21), plane shift (DC 21). Caster level 33rd. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
Summon Undead (Su)
A nightwalker can summon undead creatures once per night: 7-12 shadows, 2-5 greater shadows, or 1-2 dread wraiths. The undead arrive in 1d10 rounds and serve for 1 hour or until released.
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Avg Derro Petitioner Clan Member: Small Monstrous Outsider Ftr1/Rog1: Hit Dice: 5d8+1d10+1d6+7 (39 hp):Initiative: +6: Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares): Armor Class: 21 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, +4 studded leather armor +1, +2 buckler +1), touch 13, flat-footed 17; Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+2; Attack: Short sword +8 melee (1d4/19-20) or repeating light crossbow +8 ranged (1d6/19-20 plus poison); Full Attack: Short sword +8/+3 melee (1d4/19-20) or repeating light crossbow +8 ranged (1d6/19-20 plus poison); Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.; Special Attacks: Poison use, spell-like abilities, sneak attack +2d6; Special Qualities: Madness, DR 5/magic, Fast Healing 1, Fire Resistance: 5, Cold Resistance: 5, SR 19, vulnerability to sunlight; Saves: Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +7; Abilities: Str 11, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 5, Cha 16; Skills: Bluff +7, Hide +12, Listen +3, Move Silently +10, Spot: +2, Tumble: +5; Feats: Combat Reflexes, Blind-Fight, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (short sword)
One in 10 are Sor3 instead of Ftr/Rog1. One in 30 are Sor5 instead of Ftr1/Rog1. One in 120 are Sor8 instead of Ftr1/Rog1.
Petitioner clans will attempt to overwhelm foes with Sound Bursts, Dazes, and other spell like powers. If they are aware that it discomforts their foe, they will typically wait to launch attacks until the Mad God screams.
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More stat ideas latter
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Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
Nice stuff Cel.
Maybe another aspect to this is there's a huge bruhah going on between Orcus', Graz'zt, Demorgorgon and a small faction of Loths led by a former Devil (Moloch) trying to not only gain control BUT looking for a small piece of the Rod of Seven Part...
Maybe another aspect to this is there's a huge bruhah going on between Orcus', Graz'zt, Demorgorgon and a small faction of Loths led by a former Devil (Moloch) trying to not only gain control BUT looking for a small piece of the Rod of Seven Part...
