Epic Level Pitfalls? (Your experience)

[Cloudgatherer]

We're starting an Epic Level game in which I'll be playing a sorcerer. After playing a quick session, it seems to me that the Epic Level rules have quite a bit of potential for falling apart. Since I don't plan on taking Epic Spellcasting, my biggest concern is that my spells will become obsolete due to all characters getting +1 to all saves every other level (wow!) while I was planning on raising Cha every 4th level (regular stat increase). Seems to me all my spells will become easily resistable over time (bummer).

Anyhow, that's is my (current) concern with the system. Anyone out there who has played Epic levels and run into some snags they would like to share? It would be quite helpful to know of potential problems before they arise.

Later!

 

[Balgus]

Hmmm, lots of FR PrCs give you DC boost- like the Heirophant. Plus, you can always get Heighten spell, which will naturally incr the spell level and thusly the Dc

 

[Nightfall]

If you're Dm is insane enough, suggest you be a full empowered Solar.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

The most common problem with Epic rules seems to be people STARTING in Epic games and not working up to them. Just something about it seems to kill the gameplay nearly every time. I've got a game that's gone Epic(lvl 27 group now) from 1st level. It hasn't lost any of its fun...though when I watched a group play starting at lvl 30...it fell apart because the characters just didn't seem to work right. Building level by level has many advantages over just grabbing everything at once.

 

[Xeriar]

The most common problem with Epic rules seems to be people STARTING in Epic games and not working up to them. Just something about it seems to kill the gameplay nearly every time. I've got a game that's gone Epic(lvl 27 group now) from 1st level. It hasn't lost any of its fun...though when I watched a group play starting at lvl 30...it fell apart because the characters just didn't seem to work right. Building level by level has many advantages over just grabbing everything at once.

Even building level-by-level quickly is better (a level a session, even)

 

[Thresher]

Our current crop of epic characters where old, old... actually bloody ancient characters that where brought over from 2E. The 2E to 3E conversion does not work, you do have to rebuild them from scratch and just try to make the abilities of the old character match up with the new, about all you can bring with you is appearance, name, reputation and personality.

It is also very hard to match up the monsters CR vs the player levels, as a warning I suggest you know both the PC's abilitys and the monsters own very intimatly otherwise it can go one of two ways, a walkover or a TPK. The middle ground between a balanced encounter and the above is a very, very fine line.

The disparity between defence and offence becomes a great deal wider, he who goes first kicks the most arse and a lot of it can come down to an initive roll. To some degree the characters will have to be both superbly equipped and dare I say it, superbly designed to survive an equal CR. GM's have to spend a lot more time researching and planning their encounters and stories as well so the downtime in between games can be a little longer than normal.

Houserules, dont be afraid to use them. The game at this level had been badly playtested and over time you will find a lot of things that need looking at in more detail. The difference between level 20 and level 21 seems to be a whole new leap and bound, it just didnt seem to be an easy change for myself whereas I thought it should flow on a lot easier and just keep playing away without a stop to pause at the transition.

Thats just my opinion though and I would like to point out Im not very happy with a lot of the epic level stuff so if it sounds a bit jaded I apologise.

 

[Drakron]

If not in error, epic spellcasting only allows characters to use the seed system (the "epic" spells).

Its not a really loss of not taking that feat since DC and everthing else are still tied to caster level, reguadless of having that feat or not.

 

[MensurB]

The difference between level 20 and level 21 seems to be a whole new leap and bound, it just didnt seem to be an easy change for myself whereas I thought it should flow on a lot easier and just keep playing away without a stop to pause at the transition.

That's why it's called EPIC

 

[A'koss]

Sadly, my experience pretty much mirrors Thresher's.

Any game balance issues at <20th level only get magnified at >20 levels. Definitely not for inexperienced DMs as a lot things start to break down at these levels. Simply put, D&D isn't really designed around playing at these levels. It's not to say it can't be done, but you need a damn good DM and house rules are almost essential.

I wouldn't worry about your saving throws for your spells as I found the exact opposite problem occurs. Epic stat boosts, epic spell focus prop your DC to amazing heights. A 30th level Spellcaster can have a 40 stat in their most important ability score pretty easily (and most likely more), add ESF and your DC is 31+SL. A 30th fighter with an 18 Wis and Dex, a 30 Con and a +6 Ring of Protection (about right for his level) has a +21 to Save vs Reflex and Will attacks and a +33 for Fort Saves. While he'll likely make his Fort Save, his Reflex and Will Saves leave him wide open.


A'koss!