Bennet Hoenheim
Explorer
What are your remarks on dealing with games over level twenty?
I'm not specifically looking for opinions, but they are welcome. My intent is on actual experience or playtest, so to speak.
I'm trying to focus on a gaming scope that hits the benchmark of role-playing narrative...in a balanced and attractive way. Just like video-game companies do with vs-fighting games.
this is what I've got so far...
Epic Levels
Should the game continue past level 20, these are the rules to be followed:
Maximum level increment: Core classes are restricted to 20 levels only. Prestige Classes may continue to increase up to level 10, following their intended progression and level dependant benefits. Non-Heroic and Beast classes may increase as necessary. The total number of classes to ever build on is 99.
Level Increase after level 20: You still need 1000 experience points per level to advance!
Defenses after level 20:you add a maximum of +20 when calculating your level, to all defenses after reaching level 20.
Base Attack bonus after level 20: Continue as your class normally escalates.Reason: In lieu of having at least and at most ONE less variable to modify, the game moves forward easily.
Skills after level 20:Continue advancing your skills as normal. As Skill Challenges are Mandatory in Epic Level adventures, characters will need their 1/2 level bonus to skills accordingly.Reason:Skills on Epic levels require a far more elaborate explanation, I will share that in my upcoming PDF supplement.
Multiclassing: Characters can take Skill Training instead of their starting feat. Additionally, you receive maximun hit points for each level you multiclass into the first time you gain a level on a new class (regardless of the fact that the character is not a first level individual). Reason: encourage multiclassing and widen skill challenges options.
Retraining Feats:Upon reaching a new heroic level, any character can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the character loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A character can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level. With your GM's approval, retraining could be allowed anytime the characters have a significant amount of downtime. Reason:Inspired from the training option that Fighters receive on the Pathfinder RPG, people tends to choose this a lot.
Retraining Talents: Upon reaching a new heroic level, any character can choose to learn a new Talent in place of a Talent he has already learned. In effect, the character loses the Talent in exchange for the new one. The old Talent cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another talent, feat, prestige class, or other ability. A character can only change one talent at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the talent at the time he gains a new talent for the level. With your GM's approval, retraining could be allowed anytime the characters have a significant amount of downtime. Reason:Inspired from the training option that Fighters receive on the Pathfinder RPG, people tends to choose this a lot.
Advancing more than two levels at once: Generally you cannot advance more than 2 levels in a single encounter, even if you receive a sufficient amount of experience points (you remain 1xp away from the next level). The exception will be humans; they may raise as many levels as applicable but only if they're pure humans, not enhanced humanoids, or the like (clones apply).
Hit Points: Whenever you increase a level and roll HP for your new class, you may reroll the result if it is One, or a number smaller than your current heroic level. The Maximum number to ever reach on Hit Points is 999. At the GM's option, Hit Points don't increase after level 20.Reason:Indy RPG games have demonstrated that re-rolling HPs is a fan favorite to most players, on the other hand, if Hit Points don't Increase after level 20, as demonstrated by AD&D, an encounter at epic levels that would last 6 hours with 4 levels players facing 4 equal leveled NPCs; lasts 3 hours approximately.
Destiny Points: Note that when the situation arises, a dice rolled and it's result, is mandatory on the table; that means that if a character scores a hit by rolling a natural 20, the opposing character cannot use a DP to nullify such attack. When creating a character higher than 1st level, give it the maximum Force Points for its current level (generally 5 + 1/2 character level) and a number of Destiny Points equal to its character level divided by 5 (rounded down to a minimum of 1). Maximum number of DPs for NPCs is 10, unless otherwise noted(that ism if they receive extra DPs per level like the Force Disciple, this maximum increases by the same amount for example).
Unique Quality: This is reflected either as an additional Feat or Talent, granted once every 20 levels.Reason:This was inspired from the Star Wars Miniatures game back in the day...
Implants: Limited to a maximum of one implant for every five levels. Reason:Dis-encourage ruling exploits and munchkin player's destroying their character.
Extra Suite of Actions: If you gain an additional set of actions somehow, such extra round worth of actions may very well be played separately at the ends of everybody's turn, just before the new round begins. Reason:This is to dis-encourage ruling exploits where multiple full attacks take effect in an outrageous punishment.
Hindering: Instead of having you lose all your actions continuously, you get a cumulative +5 to your defenses for each round after being negated your turn (for 2 consecutive rounds that is); you essentially break free after 3 rounds of action denial. Reason: You can escape from ACTION DENIED only by having your opponent miss a UtF or he letting go, usually during the attacker's turn. If the attacker fails to maintain his FORCE POWER or ACTION DENIER ability--the defender breaks freee...the same when you are being pinned, a +5 bonus to your grapple check(if you are the defender), for each round in this umbalanced situation.
Saber Locks: This optional rule was originally published on page 33 of the Jedi Academy Training Manual, and is paraphrased here for fair use by players. Whenever the Block talent is used to negate an attack and the Use the Force check is equal to the attack roll, the attack is negated and a saber lock occurs. The attacker and the blocker make opposed initiative checks, the winner may make an unarmed attack as a free action, ending the saber lock. The unarmed attack cannot be blocked or negated in any way.
The Edge of Exhaustion: If you have already used your second wind(s) for the day, you can catch another second wind by voluntarily moving –1 persistent step down the condition track. The persistent condition remains until you’ve had surgery performed on you or until you get eight consecutive, uninterrupted hours of rest, not even the talent Equilibrium helps.
GameMasterY
Challenge Levels: Just add to the base rules of the Star Wars Saga Edition game, add +200 XP to every Challenge
Starting credits for a character above 21st level: your wealth at any given level should be the following: (level x [level -1]) x 2,000 credits. Double this for a noble with the Wealth talent.
Encounter Difficulty: Encounter Difficulty is measured by the calculations listed in the Core Rulebook page 247. In short, 1 NPC has an Encounter Difficulty equal to its Challenge Level. Multiple NPC’s have an Encounter Difficulty equal to their Challenge Levels added up, then divided by 3 (round down), OR the highest single Challenge Level + 2, whichever is higher. With adversaries whose total level is over 30, divided by 2 the number of levels over 30 to calculate his actual Challenge Level; however award experience normally for overcoming the challenge Example: a CL40 character is an actual treat to level 35 group, but it awards as much xp as a CL40 awards by regular xp awards.
AdHoc Xp Awards; Encounter Difficulty is measured by the calculations listed in the Core Rulebook page 247. However when any group of heroes overcomes a challenge in an unorthodox manner, if the enemy Runs away from the heroes, they will receive 1/2 the calculated award. And if the enemy is defeated trhought the use of creative skills and/or abilities, the award related should 3/4 as the actual Challenge Level awarded for overcoming such treat without incurring on lethal measures.
Earning XP to catch up with the group: If a player has missed a campaign session or otherwise fallen behind in XP compared to the other characters, he can spend downtime adventuring to help catch up to the other PCs. Usually downtime adventures feature encounters that are much easier than you’d normally expect. Spending 1 day of downtime adventuring earns such hero XP as if he had defeated an opponent whose CL was equal to his heroic level. If using this downtime activity would increase his XP above the highest XP value among all the PCs in your gaming group, it increases the players XP to that value instead; any XP earned beyond this amount is lost. This activity allows a player only to catch up, not to get ahead.
I'm not specifically looking for opinions, but they are welcome. My intent is on actual experience or playtest, so to speak.
I'm trying to focus on a gaming scope that hits the benchmark of role-playing narrative...in a balanced and attractive way. Just like video-game companies do with vs-fighting games.
this is what I've got so far...
Epic Levels
Should the game continue past level 20, these are the rules to be followed:
Maximum level increment: Core classes are restricted to 20 levels only. Prestige Classes may continue to increase up to level 10, following their intended progression and level dependant benefits. Non-Heroic and Beast classes may increase as necessary. The total number of classes to ever build on is 99.
Level Increase after level 20: You still need 1000 experience points per level to advance!
Defenses after level 20:you add a maximum of +20 when calculating your level, to all defenses after reaching level 20.
Base Attack bonus after level 20: Continue as your class normally escalates.Reason: In lieu of having at least and at most ONE less variable to modify, the game moves forward easily.
Skills after level 20:Continue advancing your skills as normal. As Skill Challenges are Mandatory in Epic Level adventures, characters will need their 1/2 level bonus to skills accordingly.Reason:Skills on Epic levels require a far more elaborate explanation, I will share that in my upcoming PDF supplement.
Multiclassing: Characters can take Skill Training instead of their starting feat. Additionally, you receive maximun hit points for each level you multiclass into the first time you gain a level on a new class (regardless of the fact that the character is not a first level individual). Reason: encourage multiclassing and widen skill challenges options.
Retraining Feats:Upon reaching a new heroic level, any character can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the character loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A character can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level. With your GM's approval, retraining could be allowed anytime the characters have a significant amount of downtime. Reason:Inspired from the training option that Fighters receive on the Pathfinder RPG, people tends to choose this a lot.
Retraining Talents: Upon reaching a new heroic level, any character can choose to learn a new Talent in place of a Talent he has already learned. In effect, the character loses the Talent in exchange for the new one. The old Talent cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another talent, feat, prestige class, or other ability. A character can only change one talent at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the talent at the time he gains a new talent for the level. With your GM's approval, retraining could be allowed anytime the characters have a significant amount of downtime. Reason:Inspired from the training option that Fighters receive on the Pathfinder RPG, people tends to choose this a lot.
Advancing more than two levels at once: Generally you cannot advance more than 2 levels in a single encounter, even if you receive a sufficient amount of experience points (you remain 1xp away from the next level). The exception will be humans; they may raise as many levels as applicable but only if they're pure humans, not enhanced humanoids, or the like (clones apply).
Hit Points: Whenever you increase a level and roll HP for your new class, you may reroll the result if it is One, or a number smaller than your current heroic level. The Maximum number to ever reach on Hit Points is 999. At the GM's option, Hit Points don't increase after level 20.Reason:Indy RPG games have demonstrated that re-rolling HPs is a fan favorite to most players, on the other hand, if Hit Points don't Increase after level 20, as demonstrated by AD&D, an encounter at epic levels that would last 6 hours with 4 levels players facing 4 equal leveled NPCs; lasts 3 hours approximately.
Destiny Points: Note that when the situation arises, a dice rolled and it's result, is mandatory on the table; that means that if a character scores a hit by rolling a natural 20, the opposing character cannot use a DP to nullify such attack. When creating a character higher than 1st level, give it the maximum Force Points for its current level (generally 5 + 1/2 character level) and a number of Destiny Points equal to its character level divided by 5 (rounded down to a minimum of 1). Maximum number of DPs for NPCs is 10, unless otherwise noted(that ism if they receive extra DPs per level like the Force Disciple, this maximum increases by the same amount for example).
Unique Quality: This is reflected either as an additional Feat or Talent, granted once every 20 levels.Reason:This was inspired from the Star Wars Miniatures game back in the day...
Implants: Limited to a maximum of one implant for every five levels. Reason:Dis-encourage ruling exploits and munchkin player's destroying their character.
Extra Suite of Actions: If you gain an additional set of actions somehow, such extra round worth of actions may very well be played separately at the ends of everybody's turn, just before the new round begins. Reason:This is to dis-encourage ruling exploits where multiple full attacks take effect in an outrageous punishment.
Hindering: Instead of having you lose all your actions continuously, you get a cumulative +5 to your defenses for each round after being negated your turn (for 2 consecutive rounds that is); you essentially break free after 3 rounds of action denial. Reason: You can escape from ACTION DENIED only by having your opponent miss a UtF or he letting go, usually during the attacker's turn. If the attacker fails to maintain his FORCE POWER or ACTION DENIER ability--the defender breaks freee...the same when you are being pinned, a +5 bonus to your grapple check(if you are the defender), for each round in this umbalanced situation.
Saber Locks: This optional rule was originally published on page 33 of the Jedi Academy Training Manual, and is paraphrased here for fair use by players. Whenever the Block talent is used to negate an attack and the Use the Force check is equal to the attack roll, the attack is negated and a saber lock occurs. The attacker and the blocker make opposed initiative checks, the winner may make an unarmed attack as a free action, ending the saber lock. The unarmed attack cannot be blocked or negated in any way.
The Edge of Exhaustion: If you have already used your second wind(s) for the day, you can catch another second wind by voluntarily moving –1 persistent step down the condition track. The persistent condition remains until you’ve had surgery performed on you or until you get eight consecutive, uninterrupted hours of rest, not even the talent Equilibrium helps.
GameMasterY
Challenge Levels: Just add to the base rules of the Star Wars Saga Edition game, add +200 XP to every Challenge
Starting credits for a character above 21st level: your wealth at any given level should be the following: (level x [level -1]) x 2,000 credits. Double this for a noble with the Wealth talent.
Encounter Difficulty: Encounter Difficulty is measured by the calculations listed in the Core Rulebook page 247. In short, 1 NPC has an Encounter Difficulty equal to its Challenge Level. Multiple NPC’s have an Encounter Difficulty equal to their Challenge Levels added up, then divided by 3 (round down), OR the highest single Challenge Level + 2, whichever is higher. With adversaries whose total level is over 30, divided by 2 the number of levels over 30 to calculate his actual Challenge Level; however award experience normally for overcoming the challenge Example: a CL40 character is an actual treat to level 35 group, but it awards as much xp as a CL40 awards by regular xp awards.
AdHoc Xp Awards; Encounter Difficulty is measured by the calculations listed in the Core Rulebook page 247. However when any group of heroes overcomes a challenge in an unorthodox manner, if the enemy Runs away from the heroes, they will receive 1/2 the calculated award. And if the enemy is defeated trhought the use of creative skills and/or abilities, the award related should 3/4 as the actual Challenge Level awarded for overcoming such treat without incurring on lethal measures.
Earning XP to catch up with the group: If a player has missed a campaign session or otherwise fallen behind in XP compared to the other characters, he can spend downtime adventuring to help catch up to the other PCs. Usually downtime adventures feature encounters that are much easier than you’d normally expect. Spending 1 day of downtime adventuring earns such hero XP as if he had defeated an opponent whose CL was equal to his heroic level. If using this downtime activity would increase his XP above the highest XP value among all the PCs in your gaming group, it increases the players XP to that value instead; any XP earned beyond this amount is lost. This activity allows a player only to catch up, not to get ahead.
