Escape DCs

[Oldtimer]

To escape a grab, you roll either an acrobatics against the monster's fortitude or an athletics against the monster's reflex, IIRC.

Or, rather, the other way around. Acrobatics vs. Reflex or Athletics vs. Fortitude.

 

[keterys]

The brawler fight is actually a good example of how the default rule is broken - it's trivial for them to set their defenses up so monsters can't escape, because defenses and skills scale at different rates.

Too late to really address overall, though - almost anything that has a monster using a skill ends up with seriously scattershot results.

 

[Ferghis]

The brawler fight is actually a good example of how the default rule is broken - it's trivial for them to set their defenses up so monsters can't escape, because defenses and skills scale at different rates.

Too late to really address overall, though - almost anything that has a monster using a skill ends up with seriously scattershot results.

True, but to a point. Forced movement, daze and stun also get you out of a grab, and there are plenty of those, which dramatically reduce the potency of the brawler at paragon and epic.

 

[OnlineDM]

I don't have my books in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that as of the Rules Compendium being dazed no longer breaks a grab. You have to be prevented from taking all actions (basically, stunned), not just dazed.

 

[Ferghis]

I don't have my books in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that as of the Rules Compendium being dazed no longer breaks a grab. You have to be prevented from taking all actions (basically, stunned), not just dazed.

The Compendium isn't as specific as you are. Specifically, it does not say the effect needs to prevent ALL actions. The text is:

This condition ends immediately on the creature if the grabber is subjected to an effect that prevents it from taking actions, or if the creature ends up outside the range of the grabbing power or effect.

My basic reading of that is that any effect preventing you from taking actions would break the grab. That includes daze, dominate, surprised, stun, unconscious, helpless dying, and any effect that prevents a character from taking opportunity or immediate actions. Luckily, the D&Di compendium is a bit more specific:

Effects that End a Grab: If you are affected by a condition that prevents you from taking opportunity actions (such as dazed, stunned, surprised, or unconscious), you immediately let go of a grabbed enemy. If you move away from the creature you’re grabbing, you let go and the grab ends. If a pull, a push, or a slide moves you or the creature you’re grabbing out of your reach, the grab ends.

EDIT: I attribute that to the inability to sustain a grab (usually a minor action). In other words, a dazed character may be able to grab an enemy, but the enemy will be able to immediately wriggle out of it due to the character's lack of focus.

 

[keterys]

The DDI quote is the old rule for grab, that in theory essentials and the rules compendium modified.

I don't think that "daze" counts as preventing you from taking actions - you're quite capable of taking actions. Any more than using an immediate action drops grab, because you can no longer use immediate actions until you're next turn

 

[Ferghis]

The DDI quote is the old rule for grab, that in theory essentials and the rules compendium modified.

Ah, thanks. Is this something that was highlighted somewhere? Because it doesn't seem like they contradict each other, and the D&Di text is clearer.

I don't think that "daze" counts as preventing you from taking actions - you're quite capable of taking actions.

The fact that the last word is plural makes your statement incorrect, but I get what you are saying. Still, since daze does prevent you from taking (immediate and opportunity) actions, it would seem to fall within the rule as stated in the Rules Compendium.

Any more than using an immediate action drops grab, because you can no longer use immediate actions until you're next turn

I don't understand what you are saying here.

 

[Dan'L]

The DDI quote is the old rule for grab, that in theory essentials and the rules compendium modified.

Given that the latest errata still has no change for the PH 290 rule, I would suggest that in practicality the original rule still stands. The RC text is vague enough to allow interpretation to include the original rule text, and there has been no effort to "correct" the original rule text. Daze should still end a grab.

-Dan'L

 

[keterys]

Yeah, it's certainly... murky. That said, it's worth consideration that many people playing the game won't even be aware of the first rule existing, because they're using different rulebooks

Either way, the rest is pretty clear - new monster design uses the new skill DC charts, or permutations thereof, because those more accurately predict skill checks, whereas defenses do not.

Lots of stuff hasn't been, nor will be, updated to this new model, and that will potentially cause some problems at the table. Care, or not care, as you will.