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Essential Classes: A Thought Experiment
- Thread starter Rossbert
- Start date
BookBarbarian
Expert Long Rester
BookBarbarian
Expert Long Rester
I'd have a hard time expressing cleric stuff with wizards too, but an easy time expressing them through "spellcasters" or "magic-users".
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Having spent...ohhhhh, many years, looking at class structures and boiling things down to my preferences of flavor and abilities...distinct characteristics (for a homebrew setting and, later/now, a homebrew game system) I've come to the following structure.
ARCHETYPAL CATEGORY
Default Class:
--Specific Flavor of that Core Class 1.
--Specific Flavor of that Core Class 2.
--Specific Flavor of that Core Class 3-through-ad infinitum.
DIFFERENT ARCHTYPE of that Core class.
Category: these are the broad strokes. What is it everything that falls under this umbrella does. What is at the CORE of these classes? What is their Prime/important/ability?
Default: These are the "Big 4." Can you have a game that is Fighting Guy with no magic, Magic guy with no fighting? Yes! Can you have a game where there is the Fighter guy, the Caster guy, the Skill guy? Sure can. Can you have a game where they are Weapons guy, Spells guy, Guy with both? You betcha. Can you have a game where there are NO classes and everything is just a collection of skills/feats/"powers" or what have you? Yup. Plenty of those.
For a "D&D" feeling game, I come down on the insistence for the "Big/Core 4." So, that's what I like/go with every time "organizing classes" comes up.
Specific Flavor 1-to-infinity: These are your "Sub-classes." You can literally tease these out to make a "class" out of any/all types of characters that would fall under the default [smaller/marginally more specific] umbrella and purposely broadly/undefined archetypes of the default class.
They have/need a "distinguishing mechanic/feature/power/ability" that the default class doesn't have. There is likely some flavor descriptors. But they essentially just do what the default does...just with a little twist. I think good place to begin with these is to assign importance to the other ability scores to go WITH the Primary score (which naturally, is what the default class uses/relies upon).
Different Archetype: These are classes that are "different enough" from the default/broad concept, but still adhere to the broader structures/framework of the Category's archetype. So, these become classes in/of themselves. I find these to be most easily generated by taking multi-class concepts and assigning them -based on the features and flavor you bake in- to one of the Archetype Categories.
To whit...
CATEGORY: WARRIORS. What are they? How do they [survive] adventure and/or deal with challenges? Combatants. They don't rely on magic. Use of/expertise with weapons and armor and combat. They're going to rely on Strength.
Default: The Fighter.
The one who fights. Do they use a weapon? Do they not use magic? They can be a fighter. Flavor and equip as you like.
--Fighter: The Knight. This is a Fighter guy with a "Code of Honor" feature/mechanic that grants them things a default Fighter doesn't have/can't do. A well-trained, disciplined kind of fighter. Most flavors prefer heavy armor. Most flavors prefer weapons expertise. But when adventure comes a-callin', they're going to grab their sword and shield and fight. The Strength &/+ Charisma fighter.
--Fighter: The Barbarian. This is a Fighter guy with a "Berserker Rage" feature/mechanic that grants them things a default Fighter doesn't have/can't do. A wild, decidedly UNdisciplined kind of fighter. Most flavors prefer lighter armors. Most flavors prefer any weapon that deals a LOT of damage. But when adventure come a-callin', they're going to grab a battle axe or two-handed sword and fight. The Strength &/+ Constitution fighter.
--Fighter: The Martial Adept [a non-magical "monk"]. This is a Fighter guy with a "Styles/Maneuvers[martial arts]" feature/mechanic that grants them things a default Fighter doesn't have/can't do. A devout, exacting kind of fighter. Most flavors prefer lighter armors. Most flavors prefer unarmed strikes or limited -but expert training with them- weaponry. But when adventure come a-callin', they're going to grab a quaterstaff [or katana or sais/daggers or...] and fight. The Strength &/+ Wisdom [or Dex. if you prefer] fighter.
--Fighter: The _______, etc...
The Paladin.
A Default Warrior [fighter] with/+ some Cleric features & flavor. Not necessarily a fully "50/50" mix as far as abilities, the Paladin will never be as magical or spells-dependent as a Cleric. But for flavor, they're pretty evenly divided, e.g. the gap between a Paladin and a Warrior/Battle/Defender god's cleric would be slim to unnoticeable in the game world. But a Paladin is a Warrior first and foremost. A Battle-Cleric is still a cleric/priest/devotee of their supernatural source first.
(As some have voiced a preference for a more "Warrior-focused" ranger, let's use that as another "Different Archetype" example. My own homebrew game puts them under Rogues because I prefer a more "skills-focused" default for a ranger and think they've been severely confused/maligned from their origins as far as distinct fantasy archetype by having them always be spell-casting warrior guys But for the case of this example, we'll just go with it...)
The Ranger.
A Default Warrior [fighter] with/+ some Roguish features & flavor. Not necessarily a fully "50/50" mix as far as abilities, the Ranger will never be as stealthy and skillsy as a Thief. But for flavor, they're pretty evenly divided, e.g. the gap between a Ranger and a Outdoorsy Scouty thief/rogue would be slim to unnoticeable in the game world.
And so on, through the Rogues (thieves, different types of thieves, swashbucklers, etc...), through the Wizards (mages, different types of mages, witches, etc...), and through the Mystics (clerics, different types of clerics, druids, etc...).
I come out, conservatively, with a nicely rounded and expansive-in-its-options game class roster of around 24 class choices, minimum of 12 up to around a decent granulation of about 28...further than that and I find you get start splitting hairs (flavors and abilities) and really becoming redundant. Just about everything from around 20 and up can be handled with backstory flavor/trappings and roleplaying.
One can, of course, keep going with setting-specific classes, race-specific classes, culture-specific classes, and so on as far as anyone could/would want.
But I think, after years and years and years, I'm come to the conclusion 16-24 is probably my personal proverbial "sweet spot."
ARCHETYPAL CATEGORY
Default Class:
--Specific Flavor of that Core Class 1.
--Specific Flavor of that Core Class 2.
--Specific Flavor of that Core Class 3-through-ad infinitum.
DIFFERENT ARCHTYPE of that Core class.
Category: these are the broad strokes. What is it everything that falls under this umbrella does. What is at the CORE of these classes? What is their Prime/important/ability?
Default: These are the "Big 4." Can you have a game that is Fighting Guy with no magic, Magic guy with no fighting? Yes! Can you have a game where there is the Fighter guy, the Caster guy, the Skill guy? Sure can. Can you have a game where they are Weapons guy, Spells guy, Guy with both? You betcha. Can you have a game where there are NO classes and everything is just a collection of skills/feats/"powers" or what have you? Yup. Plenty of those.
For a "D&D" feeling game, I come down on the insistence for the "Big/Core 4." So, that's what I like/go with every time "organizing classes" comes up.
Specific Flavor 1-to-infinity: These are your "Sub-classes." You can literally tease these out to make a "class" out of any/all types of characters that would fall under the default [smaller/marginally more specific] umbrella and purposely broadly/undefined archetypes of the default class.
They have/need a "distinguishing mechanic/feature/power/ability" that the default class doesn't have. There is likely some flavor descriptors. But they essentially just do what the default does...just with a little twist. I think good place to begin with these is to assign importance to the other ability scores to go WITH the Primary score (which naturally, is what the default class uses/relies upon).
Different Archetype: These are classes that are "different enough" from the default/broad concept, but still adhere to the broader structures/framework of the Category's archetype. So, these become classes in/of themselves. I find these to be most easily generated by taking multi-class concepts and assigning them -based on the features and flavor you bake in- to one of the Archetype Categories.
To whit...
CATEGORY: WARRIORS. What are they? How do they [survive] adventure and/or deal with challenges? Combatants. They don't rely on magic. Use of/expertise with weapons and armor and combat. They're going to rely on Strength.
Default: The Fighter.
The one who fights. Do they use a weapon? Do they not use magic? They can be a fighter. Flavor and equip as you like.
--Fighter: The Knight. This is a Fighter guy with a "Code of Honor" feature/mechanic that grants them things a default Fighter doesn't have/can't do. A well-trained, disciplined kind of fighter. Most flavors prefer heavy armor. Most flavors prefer weapons expertise. But when adventure comes a-callin', they're going to grab their sword and shield and fight. The Strength &/+ Charisma fighter.
--Fighter: The Barbarian. This is a Fighter guy with a "Berserker Rage" feature/mechanic that grants them things a default Fighter doesn't have/can't do. A wild, decidedly UNdisciplined kind of fighter. Most flavors prefer lighter armors. Most flavors prefer any weapon that deals a LOT of damage. But when adventure come a-callin', they're going to grab a battle axe or two-handed sword and fight. The Strength &/+ Constitution fighter.
--Fighter: The Martial Adept [a non-magical "monk"]. This is a Fighter guy with a "Styles/Maneuvers[martial arts]" feature/mechanic that grants them things a default Fighter doesn't have/can't do. A devout, exacting kind of fighter. Most flavors prefer lighter armors. Most flavors prefer unarmed strikes or limited -but expert training with them- weaponry. But when adventure come a-callin', they're going to grab a quaterstaff [or katana or sais/daggers or...] and fight. The Strength &/+ Wisdom [or Dex. if you prefer] fighter.
--Fighter: The _______, etc...
The Paladin.
A Default Warrior [fighter] with/+ some Cleric features & flavor. Not necessarily a fully "50/50" mix as far as abilities, the Paladin will never be as magical or spells-dependent as a Cleric. But for flavor, they're pretty evenly divided, e.g. the gap between a Paladin and a Warrior/Battle/Defender god's cleric would be slim to unnoticeable in the game world. But a Paladin is a Warrior first and foremost. A Battle-Cleric is still a cleric/priest/devotee of their supernatural source first.
(As some have voiced a preference for a more "Warrior-focused" ranger, let's use that as another "Different Archetype" example. My own homebrew game puts them under Rogues because I prefer a more "skills-focused" default for a ranger and think they've been severely confused/maligned from their origins as far as distinct fantasy archetype by having them always be spell-casting warrior guys But for the case of this example, we'll just go with it...)
The Ranger.
A Default Warrior [fighter] with/+ some Roguish features & flavor. Not necessarily a fully "50/50" mix as far as abilities, the Ranger will never be as stealthy and skillsy as a Thief. But for flavor, they're pretty evenly divided, e.g. the gap between a Ranger and a Outdoorsy Scouty thief/rogue would be slim to unnoticeable in the game world.
And so on, through the Rogues (thieves, different types of thieves, swashbucklers, etc...), through the Wizards (mages, different types of mages, witches, etc...), and through the Mystics (clerics, different types of clerics, druids, etc...).
I come out, conservatively, with a nicely rounded and expansive-in-its-options game class roster of around 24 class choices, minimum of 12 up to around a decent granulation of about 28...further than that and I find you get start splitting hairs (flavors and abilities) and really becoming redundant. Just about everything from around 20 and up can be handled with backstory flavor/trappings and roleplaying.
One can, of course, keep going with setting-specific classes, race-specific classes, culture-specific classes, and so on as far as anyone could/would want.
But I think, after years and years and years, I'm come to the conclusion 16-24 is probably my personal proverbial "sweet spot."
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Greenstone.Walker
Adventurer
I've just come across an article on Fantasy Character Classes. Warning: This is a tvtropes.org link - you productivity will suffer if you follow it!
Just to give a more complete idea of what I'm talking about/thinking/like in my games, you need something like the following. One is completely free to alter the individual names or classes to your liking or setting, as necessary.
WARRIORS -the guys/gals who are going to fight/rely on strength and skill in combat ability.
The Fighter: all armors. all weapons. potential for best HP and AC. Good/increasing attacks & damage. Non-weapon/combat features or skills would mostly deal with battle, battlefield control, feats of physical [Str, Dex, or Con] impressiveness, interactions with non-magical persons/topics.
--The Fighter: Knight: a non-magical knight [cavalier/warlord/"tank"/what have you]. A "Defensive/protector" fighter. Distinctive Feature: Code of Conduct [honor/chivalry/what have you]. Bonuses to Hit/Attack rolls.
--The Fighter: Barbarian: a non-magical barbarian [tribesman/berserker/viking/what have you]. An "Offense/damage dealer" fighter. Distinctive Feature: Berserker Rage. Bonuses to Damage rolls.
--The Fighter: Martial Adept : a non-magical "monk" [wrestler/pugilist/"striker-specialist"/what have you]. A "Speed/movement" fighter. Distinctive Feature: Adept Styles [martial arts/maneuvers/what have you]. Bonuses to movement and saves.
MYSTICs - guys/gals who are going to fight/rely on wisdom (enlightenment) and a [unique to this category] specific mix of combat prowess and magical abilities.
The Cleric: some armor. some weapons. potential for the best saves. Divine magic. Good/increasing saves. Situational/limited special attacks & damage. Channeled magic spells and effects, "Divine" in origin. Non-combat features or skills would mostly deal with religion, feats of mental impressiveness [Int., Wis, or Cha], interactions across the board/specific to the type/tenets of the cleric.
--The Cleric: Templar: a holy champion [paladin/magical knight/what have you]. A "melee/combat" focused cleric. More armor & weapons than the default cleric. Less/slower spell progression. Distinctive Feature: Righteous Smite. Bonuses to attacks and damage against undead and extraplanar beings.
--The Cleric: Ecclesiast [priest/occidental monk/"invoker"/what have you]. A "magic/caster" focused cleric. Less armor/weapons than the default cleric. More magic. Distinctive Feature: Invocations/enhanced channeling. Bonuses to magics: channeled effects, ritual use, etc...
The Druid: some armor. some weapons. potential for best saves, situational. Nature magic. Good/increasing nature abilities. Channeled magic spells/effects, "Natural" in origin (not "the gods"). Non-combat features or skills mostly deal with nature/wilderness/outdoors, feats of mental impressiveness, interactions best with those associated with the natural world (rural/wild peoples, fae or elemental beings, animals, etc...)
ROGUES - the guys/gals who are going to fight/rely on dexterity and predominantly non-weapon/combat skills, with situational combat ability.
The Thief: limited armors. some weapons. potential for best skills. Good/increasing expertise of various kinds. Non-weapon/combat features or skills would mostly deal with thievery, general [non-magical] utility, feats of dexterous impressiveness, information gathering and general interactions.
--The Thief: Acrobat [cat burglar/entertainer/"flippy monk"/what have you]. A "speed/movement" focused thief. Same armor/weapons as the default thief. Less broad/more specific skills. Distinctive Feature: Stunts. Bonuses to movement, attack/hit rolls, and situational saves.
--The Thief: Rake [courtier/spy-assassin/"the face"/what have you]. An "interactions/seduction" focused thief. Same armor/weapons as the default thief. Less broad/more specific skills. Distinctive Feature: Panache. Bonuses to interactions, damage rolls, and situational saves.
The Ranger: limited armors (to start). some weapons. potential for best situational skills and situational combat features. Good/increasing expertise in nature/the wilderness. Non-weapon and combat features and skills mostly deal with the wilderness, specific terrains and foes therein, outdoor utility, feats of physical impressiveness [Dex, Con, or Str], interactions best with those associated with the natural world (rural/wild peoples, fae or elemental beings, animals, etc...).
WIZARDS - the guys/gals who are going to fight/rely on intelligence and magical abilities.
The Mage: no armors. limited weapons. potential for best spells/magic. Arcane magic. Good/increasing spell/magic use. Non-weapon/combat features or skills would mostly deal with lore/knowledge of all kinds, feats of mental [Int, Wis, or Cha] impressiveness, interactions with magical persons/topics.
--The Mage: Illusionist: a creative trickster [magician/"enchanter"/what have you]. A "mind-effecting/-deceiving" mage. Distinctive Feature: Illusion Magic. Spells that fool the senses, alter emotion and perception.
--The Mage: Necromancer: a foreboding spellweaver [there's really little other descriptors for necromancers]. A "[live or dead]body-effecting" mage. Distinctive Feature: Necromantic Magic. Spells that imbue, control, and/or eliminate life, death, and undeath.
The Witch: no armors, limited weapons. potential for most diverse spells/magics. Arcane & Nature magic. Good/increasing supernatural abilities ["hexes"/mixed spell lists/what have you]. Non-weapon/combat features and skills would mostly deal with a combination of nature and occult/arcane topics, the "spirit world," herbalism/potion brewing, etc..., interactions with magical and natural persons/topics.
WARRIORS -the guys/gals who are going to fight/rely on strength and skill in combat ability.
The Fighter: all armors. all weapons. potential for best HP and AC. Good/increasing attacks & damage. Non-weapon/combat features or skills would mostly deal with battle, battlefield control, feats of physical [Str, Dex, or Con] impressiveness, interactions with non-magical persons/topics.
--The Fighter: Knight: a non-magical knight [cavalier/warlord/"tank"/what have you]. A "Defensive/protector" fighter. Distinctive Feature: Code of Conduct [honor/chivalry/what have you]. Bonuses to Hit/Attack rolls.
--The Fighter: Barbarian: a non-magical barbarian [tribesman/berserker/viking/what have you]. An "Offense/damage dealer" fighter. Distinctive Feature: Berserker Rage. Bonuses to Damage rolls.
--The Fighter: Martial Adept : a non-magical "monk" [wrestler/pugilist/"striker-specialist"/what have you]. A "Speed/movement" fighter. Distinctive Feature: Adept Styles [martial arts/maneuvers/what have you]. Bonuses to movement and saves.
MYSTICs - guys/gals who are going to fight/rely on wisdom (enlightenment) and a [unique to this category] specific mix of combat prowess and magical abilities.
The Cleric: some armor. some weapons. potential for the best saves. Divine magic. Good/increasing saves. Situational/limited special attacks & damage. Channeled magic spells and effects, "Divine" in origin. Non-combat features or skills would mostly deal with religion, feats of mental impressiveness [Int., Wis, or Cha], interactions across the board/specific to the type/tenets of the cleric.
--The Cleric: Templar: a holy champion [paladin/magical knight/what have you]. A "melee/combat" focused cleric. More armor & weapons than the default cleric. Less/slower spell progression. Distinctive Feature: Righteous Smite. Bonuses to attacks and damage against undead and extraplanar beings.
--The Cleric: Ecclesiast [priest/occidental monk/"invoker"/what have you]. A "magic/caster" focused cleric. Less armor/weapons than the default cleric. More magic. Distinctive Feature: Invocations/enhanced channeling. Bonuses to magics: channeled effects, ritual use, etc...
The Druid: some armor. some weapons. potential for best saves, situational. Nature magic. Good/increasing nature abilities. Channeled magic spells/effects, "Natural" in origin (not "the gods"). Non-combat features or skills mostly deal with nature/wilderness/outdoors, feats of mental impressiveness, interactions best with those associated with the natural world (rural/wild peoples, fae or elemental beings, animals, etc...)
ROGUES - the guys/gals who are going to fight/rely on dexterity and predominantly non-weapon/combat skills, with situational combat ability.
The Thief: limited armors. some weapons. potential for best skills. Good/increasing expertise of various kinds. Non-weapon/combat features or skills would mostly deal with thievery, general [non-magical] utility, feats of dexterous impressiveness, information gathering and general interactions.
--The Thief: Acrobat [cat burglar/entertainer/"flippy monk"/what have you]. A "speed/movement" focused thief. Same armor/weapons as the default thief. Less broad/more specific skills. Distinctive Feature: Stunts. Bonuses to movement, attack/hit rolls, and situational saves.
--The Thief: Rake [courtier/spy-assassin/"the face"/what have you]. An "interactions/seduction" focused thief. Same armor/weapons as the default thief. Less broad/more specific skills. Distinctive Feature: Panache. Bonuses to interactions, damage rolls, and situational saves.
The Ranger: limited armors (to start). some weapons. potential for best situational skills and situational combat features. Good/increasing expertise in nature/the wilderness. Non-weapon and combat features and skills mostly deal with the wilderness, specific terrains and foes therein, outdoor utility, feats of physical impressiveness [Dex, Con, or Str], interactions best with those associated with the natural world (rural/wild peoples, fae or elemental beings, animals, etc...).
WIZARDS - the guys/gals who are going to fight/rely on intelligence and magical abilities.
The Mage: no armors. limited weapons. potential for best spells/magic. Arcane magic. Good/increasing spell/magic use. Non-weapon/combat features or skills would mostly deal with lore/knowledge of all kinds, feats of mental [Int, Wis, or Cha] impressiveness, interactions with magical persons/topics.
--The Mage: Illusionist: a creative trickster [magician/"enchanter"/what have you]. A "mind-effecting/-deceiving" mage. Distinctive Feature: Illusion Magic. Spells that fool the senses, alter emotion and perception.
--The Mage: Necromancer: a foreboding spellweaver [there's really little other descriptors for necromancers]. A "[live or dead]body-effecting" mage. Distinctive Feature: Necromantic Magic. Spells that imbue, control, and/or eliminate life, death, and undeath.
The Witch: no armors, limited weapons. potential for most diverse spells/magics. Arcane & Nature magic. Good/increasing supernatural abilities ["hexes"/mixed spell lists/what have you]. Non-weapon/combat features and skills would mostly deal with a combination of nature and occult/arcane topics, the "spirit world," herbalism/potion brewing, etc..., interactions with magical and natural persons/topics.
