Essentials: Its not 4.5, its BECMI 2.0!

[JeffB]

I agree with the OP- and I'm glad for it. I need/want that less complex (or less option crazy) game that essentials is shaping up to be.

I also agree for my tastes that 4E more than anything since gives off that "wild & wooly" vibe that I cherished from my LBB and B/X days, compared to the more highly structured and codified AD&D game and world system.

In theory, B/X & BECMI were designed to be a clean up of the LBBs, so I can understand the "predates AD&D" mentality someone mentioned- however in theory, it wasn't really the case- That woodgrain/white box, combined with the elements from GH, BM, EW, & G, DG &H, is more like AD&D lite. B/X & BECMI lie somewhere between- mechanical simplicity is def in that LBB camp, but utilizes very little of the material introduced in the supplements which made it into AD&D.

 

[Henry]

Essentials is the new core from now on. At least in retail. If someone enters a shop and asks to buy the core products of D&D he would be directed towards the ten "Essentials" products.

Given that we have it from Bill Slavicsek in a quote from GenCon that the Core books will be reprinted again, are you sure about this?

The Essentials are for mainly new players to give them a well-defined starting point. As far as we've been told, you'll still be able to buy the core books -- even at FLGS's.

 

[xechnao]

Given that we have it from Bill Slavicsek in a quote from GenCon that the Core books will be reprinted again, are you sure about this?

The Essentials are for mainly new players to give them a well-defined starting point. As far as we've been told, you'll still be able to buy the core books -- even at FLGS's.

New players are considered the players that need to buy the core yet. The core is the starting point. So, what you are saying is actually the same thing. You are not going to sell to these players a second core that with the same basic rules. Doen't make sense.

 

[TerraDave]

Given that we have it from Bill Slavicsek in a quote from GenCon that the Core books will be reprinted again, are you sure about this?

The Essentials are for mainly new players to give them a well-defined starting point. As far as we've been told, you'll still be able to buy the core books -- even at FLGS's.

You will still be able to buy them, as they are still available.

Listing to that podcast, it was more like an errated PHB (I don't think it was all three) will be available "when its time".

But once we all have the Rules Compendium, does that make sense, or does that new PHB become another kind of book. Like an advanced book?

 

[xechnao]

You will still be able to buy them, as they are still available.

Listing to that podcast, it was more like an errated PHB (I don't think it was all three) will be available "when its time".

But once we all have the Rules Compendium, does that make sense, or does that new PHB become another kind of book. Like an advanced book?

"when it's time" is a void quote to base any assumptions. If, in theory, I had to make a business decision that was dependent on the outcome of this matter I would not consider this quote to indicate anything. Or perhaps I would consider it a an negative indication because if they realy intended to do something about this problem they would rather have something more substantial to say.

There is this fact. Right now there are not any errataed PHBs to the new rules. Right now if one wants to buy the core he can only buy Essentials unless he wants to buy a product that needs to be pathched to hell. Couldn't be more clear than this that the actual core at the commercial front is Essentials and only Essentials.

 

[shamsael]

To me, they made the most sense when they pointed out that some of the big box retailers were just stocking PHB3, thinking "hey, it's 2 better than PHB1, right?" and directing potential new players to start out with that book.

I've seen that exact situation at B&Ns and Borderses before.

 

[DracoSuave]

"when it's time" is a void quote to base any assumptions. If, in theory, I had to make a business decision that was dependent on the outcome of this matter I would not consider this quote to indicate anything. Or perhaps I would consider it a an negative indication because if they realy intended to do something about this problem they would rather have something more substantial to say.

Or perhaps I'd also put into context them saying they have plenty of stock and that one reason alone might be while they aren't printing more.

2+2=4 amirite?

There is this fact. Right now there are not any errataed PHBs to the new rules. Right now if one wants to buy the core he can only buy Essentials unless he wants to buy a product that needs to be pathched to hell. Couldn't be more clear than this that the actual core at the commercial front is Essentials and only Essentials.

And how do they find out the PHB needs to be, as you put it, 'patched to hell?' Is that on the store display? Is it on page 12? Or is that something only people already familiar with the product line know about? Think very hard about this.

If you're going to see things clearly, try to see them clearly with the lack of knowledge of a new customer. Otherwise, you're not actually looking at things with clarity, but through the smudged lenses of the jaded.

 

[ObsidianCrane]

They buy Essentials because it is on the shelf, because that is the intent of Essentials, to always be available.

They invest in the game.

They jump on the forums or talk to people and learn that there are differences, and that their Essentials products have the latest rules, and that the older books have been updated to match their Essentials rules.

They buy a DDI sub and never, ever need a PHB1.

PHB1 doesn't sell through current stock in WotC warehouse, and is thus never reprinted.

The other option is that they get the PHB1, then they do all the same jumping online and learn that their book is significantly out of date and requires extensive patching.

If neither customer never goes online, and never buys another product they will probably be quite happy.

Yet it seems to me we will see more people buying Essentials than PHB1s going forward, simply because the WotC marketing of Essentials to store owners is "Always have this in stock".

 

[scylis]

They buy Essentials because it is on the shelf, because that is the intent of Essentials, to always be available.

They invest in the game.

They jump on the forums or talk to people and learn that there are differences, and that their Essentials products have the latest rules, and that the older books have been updated to match their Essentials rules.

They buy a DDI sub and never, ever need a PHB1.

PHB1 doesn't sell through current stock in WotC warehouse, and is thus never reprinted.

The other option is that they get the PHB1, then they do all the same jumping online and learn that their book is significantly out of date and requires extensive patching.

If neither customer never goes online, and never buys another product they will probably be quite happy.

Yet it seems to me we will see more people buying Essentials than PHB1s going forward, simply because the WotC marketing of Essentials to store owners is "Always have this in stock".

There will always be sales of the PHB1, however small in number they might be, so long as it is still made available and 4E is still the current edition. Yes, you can basically not need to buy it if you sign up for DDI, but not everybody wants to only rely on DDI. Some of us actually like having physical books.

Many of us gamer folk are a backwards and superstitious lot, not trusting this thing called the internet via the personal computing machine to furnish us with our only means of accessing the rules we need to perform our dark and lonely social rituals. Pelor help you if you dare touch another gamer's dice, as well, for they become fickle and unsympathetic creatures when asked to serve more than one master, even if but once, and they care not for your plight as they consistently roll low henceforth.

As such, I care not for your doomsday nay-saying, for I think it a bleak future which shan't come to pass.

 

[xechnao]

Or perhaps I'd also put into context them saying they have plenty of stock and that one reason alone might be while they aren't printing more.

2+2=4 amirite?



And how do they find out the PHB needs to be, as you put it, 'patched to hell?' Is that on the store display? Is it on page 12? Or is that something only people already familiar with the product line know about? Think very hard about this.

If you're going to see things clearly, try to see them clearly with the lack of knowledge of a new customer. Otherwise, you're not actually looking at things with clarity, but through the smudged lenses of the jaded.

If I were a retailer and some customer asked my advice to help him buy into the current iteration of D&D I could not give to a customer Essentials and PHB1/DMG1/MM1 line without explaining him first that they need some erata.

If not, when the customer goes home, reads the books and figures out the rules inconsistencies that customer would either make a negative impression of me or Wotc or both.

Or the customer could go to Wotc site and figure out what is happening and think that with all the erata and changes on the PHB1... these products that he bought are not worth his time and dollars.