Ever benched a GM?

[D.Reaver]

The first Champions game I played in was a lot of fun and the DM, was and is still a great storyteller.

But..... in the second season of the game we were still playing the same characters, kids learning to use out powers. We came across vampires in a nightclub. We could not to anything to stop them, they were tougher, faster, stronger, etc.... So we told out teachers who went down there and did not find anything. The next month and a half was on and off dealing with these vampires. That we could not harm or affect in any way. So the more vocal of us sat down with him and said "We are over the whole vampire thing, let us do something to them or move on". He said he would. After three more weeks of vampires, we just stopped showing up.

About a year later we saw him again and started playing again. And have not even heard the word vampire said in game.

 

[Psion]

The Code is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules. ;-)

So have you guys ever benched a GM?
and what was the offense?

Oh the stories I could tell.

Recently: Nothing so overt, but sort of.

My players decided it might be nice for me to take a break and have one of their friends GM a game for a while. It was a Star Wars game in which the players worked for a boss with super-teleportation tech, and the jist of the game was that we were supposed to investigate a planet that is supposed to be lifeless. We found the Stargate SG-1 team their. We talked to them. Asked them nicely to leave. They did. Ho hum.

As it was a one shot thing, it wasn't a matter of unseating him so much as not taking a break from my game again while he was there.


More recently, we got two "new" players (actually, players I have played with before). One ran a pretty decent FR game and I wouldn't mind having him run a spell. But the other one WANTS to run a spell and WANTS to run Shadowrun (aside from the fact that I don't like the game, he has a rep as being a PC-killer and I heard moaning from some old players that used to be in his group.) So, while I would maybe take a break and let GM 1 run again, I am afraid that GM 2 would use it as an opportunity to push his game that I don't want to play.


Further in the annals of history:

This was high school, with the attendant level of maturity. We were playing at the local library. Our DM was making bogus calls, like causing an NPC we were trying to intimidate have a sudden heart attack. I got fed up, and figured if I walked out, he'd chill out and come to his senses.

However, what happened was I started a trend. I walked out... everyone else followed.

I actually felt sort of bad for the guy, as that was not my intention.

 

[ledded]

Elf Witch, that sounds like a GM who could be really good if anyone would give her feedback about what she's doing wrong. This is why I'm a huge fan of the DM asking for honest feedback about what they could improve; without that, it's really hard to detect this sort of major gaffe, since it's usually somewhere that the DM has a blind spot.

Amen to that, Piratecat. Even though our group is a tight-knit group of long-time friends, I am near-obsessive about trying to gauge or perceive that people might be not having as good a time as they should. I ask for feedback, and even have posted anonymous voting polls on our yahoo group so that people could voice their opinion without worry about a personal slight or being ridiculed by the remainder of the group.

That being said, I've GM'd short campaigns that I made sure wrapped up quickly even though I *really* wanted to continue to a better stopping point, because I could tell that one or two of the gang weren't into it, or that particular game had just had its run and it was time to move on. I've also let games be taken in a direction that I may not have intended or even wanted to go; my WW2/superheros game is one example of that. I wanted to do a side campaign that was gritty straight-up WW2 (and a couple of players were behind that), but a couple of the players wanted to do a superhero campaign and weren't that interested in doing the WW2. I ended up compromising my initial idea (reluctantly) and ended up with a very fun side campaign by combining both into the same game. I also spent time with the one guy who was not a war or ww2 buff at all, and found ways to inspire him and give him ideas for how it could even be more fun (loaned him my Band of Brothers DVD's and encouraged him to watch them, told him great anecdotes from the many books I had read, discussed cool character ideas that appealled to him and were slanted towards the genre, got him into some comics that fit the genre, etc). Soon, he caught the bug and we've had a blast with it most of the time, even though sometimes it still gets a bit more campy than I would like. But that doesnt matter, if that's the way the players want to take it, then I let them and sometimes even encourage it, and we have fun; after all, I'm only one of the five people who play.

It helps as a GM to keep a close eye on what the players do when you are having critical moments in the game. If they can't ever remember key facts or interesting plot twists, or they seem to get bored/constantly talk tangents while you are GM'ing, or do things that seem intended to derail your game and they normally aren't the seditious type, *you* may have a problem with your game. You obviously cant please all of the people all of the time, but if you are careful and considerate you can please most of 'em, most of the time. You just have to know when to bench yourself, if necessary

 

[The Grackle]

You can tell her all this before a game starts but once the game gets going and she starts doing this stuff she gets all defensive and her feelings get hurt if you tell her you are not having good time. She loses all perspective on it. It causes problems with our friendship and with her marriage. She feels betrayed at the time.

I'd say, don't let her GM and avoid the inevitable hurt feelings.

I don't know why, but some people cannot help themselves w/the uberNPCs. You can give them constructive criticism, but its like telling a crack fiend to just say no. Matt was the same way.

I'm also a firm believer in natural GMing ability (perfected, of course, through years of practice). No matter how hard you try, if you're not cut out for it, you're not cut out for it. I work pretty hard at it GMing- I ask players what they think at the end of the night, I watch to see what parts they enjoy, I go back and analyze my mistakes anytime there's a dud session, I specifically try to avoid my bad-habits, and I'm still just okay at it. The only reason I've had any success is b/c I've had good players.

That's why, personally, I'm all for benching a GM. Codes be damned.

 

[Tinner]

Benched? More like sacked.

We had a DM that just could not get it through his head that the party wanted to "kill stuff & get treasure"
This was a game with a load of flaws.
For starters, since the game was being held at a college game club, the DM felt that he had to include anyone who asked to join. There were no rules about this, but he just liked having a lot of "little people" to control.
At the start of the campaign, he asked us what we wanted to do, and it was nearly uinanimous that we wanted to do fairly standard dungeoncrawl, hack & slay, Orc & Pie type heroic adventuring.
We got off to a bad start when he let everyone make any kind of character they wanted. so my 2e Gnome Illusionist was surrounded by some munchkin-esque elf archers, power mad wizards, bloody handed fighters, as well as 1 wild mage, and 1 merchant.
Why he let those two looneys play these characters is beyond me.
Did I mention that the wild mage also thought he was a physician? He favored bleeding PC to cure anything that ailed them, including being low on hp. He killed 2 PC's that way. Don't even mention the numerous wild surges that caused us no end of trouble.
So with a group of 12 players, some of whom are playing moronic characters, or characters totally inappropriate to our expected "kill & loot" style campaign, he proceeded to start us with ... a political adventure.
We somehow become attached to a local nobleman and were trying to prevent his assassination before his wedding day.
Well, that was the plot as he pitched it to us. The evil PC's (oh yeah, everyone could play any alignment they wanted too!) decided to throw in with the assassin and try to sieze the kingdom for themselves. So we suddenly had a PvP game.
Oh yeah, we never actually were told that we'd be rewarded for defending the local noble. So we were essentially doing this pro bono!
What happened to the dungeoncrawl? What happened to the treasure?
Anyway, we got off to a rocky start, but through careful planning, and sheer bullheadedness the good team managed to save the day, and drive off the players of the vil PC's. That's a good thing! Smaller group, no more interparty fights. Yay!
So we go to the next adventure, we get sent to explore an uncharted island.
Alright! This is more what we were asking for!
And on the way there we get shipwrecked, losing ALL aour equipment.
Still, I'm hanging in there, now it's a survival kind of game, and that's pretty interesting, plus, any weapons or clothes we find will be pretty good treasure, right?
So we begin to fashion crude weapons and explore.
And we find crap. Nothing.
No ruins, no primitive peoples. No monsters. We basically just wander and scavenge for food.
Realistic? Sure.
Fun? Not so much.
After a few REAL TIME weeks (we played every thursday night) of this boredom we finally found a grove, where a magic mouth informed us that the faeries would appear to the faithful and help them escape this accursed island.
We searched for clues of how to attract the faeries attention, but the clerics and druids were unable to come up with a single clue. Mind you - we never actually SAW these faeries. We never saw ANYTHING! We just spent over a month of real time pretending to be a dozen Robinson Cruesos (sic?)
After another month (real time) of trying to find some way to attract the faeries unsuccessfully ... I snapped.
The actual rant I screamed has been lost to history, but I seem to recall having my gnome stipping naked, smearing himself with honey and wildflowers and frolicing in the "faeire grove" until "these f'ing faeries get their sparkly little heads out of their butts and help us end the misery that is this f'ing game!"
I think I got a little animated OOC as well, because when I stopped shouting everyone at the table aside from the GM gave me a standing ovation, cheers and laughter.
In shock the GM muttered something about needing a bathroom break and we called time out.
During the time out, I moved the DM's books to my seat, and took my place at the end of the table in the "DM's chair"
The players returned before the DM, and I simply began running the game. I had them attacked by some lizardmen who they rapidly dispatched - to cheers! And then, they looted the bodies and found gold! More cheers!
At last the Dm wandered back into the room and saw what had happened. I smiled at him. The players waited to see what would now happen.
I stood up to give him back his game if he wanted it.
And he calmly went to my old space at the table, pulled out a blank character sheet and started rolling dice.
"Can I play a swashbuckler?" he asked with a nervous grin.

That DM and I have been fast friends ever since, he was even in my wedding. We still laugh about "The day Tinner frenzied on the Faeries."
He told me later that he knew the game was falling apart, but he just didn't know what to do about it, and didn't want to look stupid by quitting.

Moral? I guess it's talk to your DM, and don't be afraid to be animated if you're bored?
YMMV.

 

[The Grackle]

At last the Dm wandered back into the room and saw what had happened. I smiled at him. The players waited to see what would now happen.
I stood up to give him back his game if he wanted it.
And he calmly went to my old space at the table, pulled out a blank character sheet and started rolling dice.
"Can I play a swashbuckler?" he asked with a nervous grin.

That is a great story.

 

[eris404]

So have you guys ever benched a GM?
and what was the offense?

Unfortunately, yes. We were playing Fading Suns. No matter what our party did, the NPCs were always stronger, more powerful, more intelligent and better equipped. We were supposed to be solving a mystery, but every time we found a clue, a witness, a suspect, it would disappear, be destroyed, get away, whatever. What started as challenging became impossible and hopeless as our every plan was thwarted completely, usually leaving us running for our lives and freedom from some overwhelming force. Towards the end, we started just doing inane things because we had no idea what to do. Finally, the GM just had a computer figure out and tell us who did it. After that, I took the cowards way out and stopped showing up. The game fell apart a few sessions later; another GM decided to run a new game and everyone got excited about it and left the FS game in the dust.

My advice to someone who wants to bench a GM is: come out and tell him to his face. It's difficult to do and there might be some hurt feelings, but it's much better than just leaving the person hanging or suffering through an activity that supposed to be fun. I still have guilty feelings about that game and wish I had been mature enough to talk it through.

 

[Chimera]

You can tell her all this before a game starts but once the game gets going and she starts doing this stuff she gets all defensive and her feelings get hurt if you tell her you are not having good time. She loses all perspective on it. It causes problems with our friendship and with her marriage. She feels betrayed at the time.

I don't think I'd play another game with her. Not out of spite, but out of mutual protection.

She wants to tell a story. HER story. But that's not what GMing is about.

GMing a game involves creating a story and then turning control over to your players, making it their story.

The key CLUE here is that she feels "betrayed" because you aren't having a good time being led around by the nose through HER STORY. She wants to control everything that happens at the table, have HER characters do everything important and have you guys support and cheer her on.

This isn't gaming, this isn't GMing. This is self-gratification. And she wants you to be an appreciative audience to her masterbatory behavior. To the point of feeling "betrayed" if you aren't the happy and supportive friend she insists you be.

I know, I sound harsh. I'm not saying that I would end my friendship with this person, I'm just saying that I wouldn't "play" in one of her games.

 

[eris404]

That is a great story.

Yeah, I agree, Tinner. I'm glad you are still friends with that DM.

An interesting point is that the DM admitted he didn't really know what to do next. I wonder how often that happens and the DM is too embarrassed to ask for help or to step down. That might have saved a few games.

 

[Chimera]

My advice to someone who wants to bench a GM is: come out and tell him to his face. It's difficult to do and there might be some hurt feelings, but it's much better than just leaving the person hanging or suffering through an activity that supposed to be fun. I still have guilty feelings about that game and wish I had been mature enough to talk it through.

Had this chat with someone I know who was suprised that I was the only one who would tell him what his problem was in an open and honest manner.

Problems in a relationship are like cancer. They make everyone uncomfortable, but no one wants to talk about them. We gloss them over and hope they go away on their own. We hope that the person with the problem suddenly "gets a clue" and figures it out on their own.

But, like cancer, not talking about it doesn't make it go away. It festers and grows until it consumes the entire relationship.

Talking about the problem is like surgery. It hurts. We don't want to do it. We're afraid it will kill the relationship. Heck, sometimes the other person isn't open to discussion of their faults and it DOES kill the relationship. But in that case, you have to face that the relationship is doomed anyway. You either throw yourself away putting up with the other person's behavior, or you end up walking away from them.

So TALK. Bring the problems out into the light of day.

With kindness and empathy.

And be willing on your own end to admit fault or even see that what you thought was a Tarrasque of a problem was just the shadow of a mouse, blown up by your own issues.