Evolution/Revolution of industry

[Warden]

I work for Blockbuster, so I get a sampling of the video game industry as well as making efforts in the RPG industry as well, and I would have to say that video games offer a vastly different appeal than an RPG for one reason...

...all you have to do is play.

Video games have strengthened their appeal because the same kids that played when systems first came out still love playing it when they're older. Now they have money, so they can afford to buy systems, games, accessories, and what-not (most of Xbox's strategy for their initial system revolved around adult sales, while PS2 and Gcube kept it on a younger crowd), because it's all set for them. You wanna play, BAM, you're there.

Video games also gather an ecclectic gathering of people: businessmen, kids, college students, and even an old retired guy at my store that spends huge amounts of his pension on PS2 stuff. It's become an open entertainment market that is able to reach double-digit percentages of DVD sales (and even 10% of DVD sales is considered an accomplishment).

RPGs require work, even a published adventure. It's a game that inspires creativity, so those playing it are naturally inclined to create their own material. How many GMs out there have modified a published adventure to suit the whims of their own party? Most, if not all. After a time, there is a need to buy less because they develop a proficiency for creating their own material. You wanna play, you gotta put in a couple of days beforehand. Hell, I take the day off work before I play a game.

WotC possibly hoped that feats would create a TCG link to RPGs -- collect more feats to make your character more powerful and that means buying more products. Once again, many gamers probably create their own feats to suit something they're looking for, and each character can only have so many of them. Once again, the early success of Magic was garnered by cards that were ready to use, once you could find them, and all was left to play them strategically.

WotC definitely helped expand the market and has made it more accessible, but I can't see it going any further than what already exists. RPGs require a select audience. They're like foreign films. Sure, some of them are great pieces of work that would work out really well, but a lot of people don't like to read the subtitles. They just wait for the American remake.

 

[philreed]

(and even 10% of DVD sales is considered an accomplishment).

Especially since DVD sales now account for over 50% of Hollywood's money.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Some of the best stuff ever published is by people who DON'T quit their day jobs and treat this as a "hobby business". A serious hobby business, but still a hobby business. So I wouldn't discount all the hard work of folks who don't do RPGs full-time.

I'll even name names: Necromancer Games.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

1. Has the gaming industry evolved. Hell yes - look at the web support even the smallest products get, look at the production quality of the higher end books. In these areas we have scooted along from ten or even five years ago. Evolution of game design is more subjective but there are certainly games that continue pushing boundaries. However, don't discount the effect the OGL and d20 licences have - the using of common rules sets is beginning to spread beyond the d20 SRD and you will begin seeing a lot more games in the future that have a rules set picked for them not because it is automatically popular but because it fits the setting.

Using another company's rules system might have been unthinkable before d20 came along.

I would argue against computer games evolving out of this industry but it may be true that they can be used as a model to develop. However, you won't get far with RPGs alone and once you begin moving beyond RPGs, there is little wrong with the gaming industry. . . That said, compare an RPG of the 70's with the current D&D, Buffy or Conan. We have come a long way.

2. Lateness and Vapourware. This has two causes (generally - as with everything else, the Up Theory can always apply). Either a, umm, less well-managed company failed to plan ahead or a more established company has run into problems. With the latter, it is easy to ponder about financial problems but a freelancer letting a company down can have a similar impact, especially if a project has to be started over. As for being taken seriously, if you hit your release dates, the distributor chain will take you seriously. If not, they won't. There is a natural mechanism here guarding against the worst offenders.

3. Hobby or Business. Yes, now, I have always hated this question. All through the d20 craze, various 'companies' complained about the little guys ruining the rest of the industry. Poppycock. If companies like that are ruining your day and your sales, then maybe, just maybe, you are not that much better off than they are. It is not a good idea to throw mud. For my part, I say that if someone wants to run an RPG company as an extension of their hobby, and if it actually makes money - good on them! They are already doing better than 90% of all people who enter the industry. If they make it 'big' they are not going to be a hobby business for long (there are some interesting exceptions here but I digress). If they sell just enough to make a tidy profit then they are not going to have much effect on the industry one way or the other. Collectively, these 'hobby companies' make up less than 1% of the overall market share.

So no, they are not 'killing the industry'. Comapnies criticising one another does no good, but hobby companies are not the root of all evil.

4. New Gamer Blood. No arguments here. You also have some very good ideas but I fear you lack the oomph to push them through. It isn't the hobby companioes you have to convince here but the likes of WotC and White Wolf. Between those two you have perhaps 60% of the market share of the RPG industry and the resources that go with that. However, drop me a line if you want to talk about this further - it is important.

5. Evolution and Revolution. Well, the last was d20. What will be the next? No idea but it will be here in a year or three. Less than that for a general gaming evolution rather than RPGs. The trouble is when you move too far from the RPG format, it is no longer an RPG. People call it a splinter or whole new category of game. The D&D miniatures game is a good example of this.

Your intentions are laudable and I wish you the best of luck. However, many people have been down this path before

 

[Jarf]

3) Hobby or Business: I see this industry as a business and I treat it like a business. I know a lot of people, who make their living in this industry, but the majority of people involved in this industry run it like a “bad hobby” business and this is killing us as an industry. How many people out there read books on business marketing and strategy when developing their business plan for the year? How many people even have a business plan for next year?

Business plans don't constitute a business - they are just a part of operating a business. On the other hand, producing quality products and selling them to customers IS the business. If I learned anything in the military, it was that a plan was only valid until the first shot was fired. Business isn't much different - most modern business practices have their roots in the development of large-scale logistics management during WW2.

But I digress...

The problem I see is that many, if not most, RPG products are rushed through editing and onto the shelves. In this instance, "hobby" businesses (run by people with "day jobs" and health insurance) may have an advantage in that there isn't much pressure in getting product on the shelf in order to pay the bills. Additionally, I sometimes think there is an inverse relationship between how nice a product looks and the usefulness of the content. There are certainly exceptions to this (eg. Mongoose's Conan, WotC d20 Future).

 

[Arnwyn]

Traditional video games where you basically play through a program run on a computer are clearly inferior to PnP games.

Oh? "Clearly"? I think not. Maybe to you, though. It's not quite so clear to me and the rather large number of video game consumers compared to the little niche PnP game industry.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

Yeah, clearly.

There was a time when it was easy to show that a PnP game was superior to a traditional video game. today that is a lot harder (but I’m about to do it anyway ).

Go get a video game from the mid 90s or earlier and try doing something the programmer didn't plan for. Hell, get a current video game that is not a "live" game and see how versatile it is. Some are very versatile and “life-like” but they still fall short of the possibilities available in a PnP game. Just because video games have a larger market share, doesn't mean they are better or superior. It merely means they have better customer appeal.

Video games have broader market appeal because they are dumbed-down and simplified, just like hip-hop music and Paris Hilton. They appeal to the largest common denominator. That doesn't make them "better."

Using that logic, McDonalds would be the most superior restaurant around... how many billions have they served now? That many people can't be wrong, right?

Yet, you and I can easily name restaurants that are clearly superior to McDonalds, right?

PnP paper games require effort on the part of the players and that, compared to video games, is a level of difficulty that turns people off. I personally know several people that have abandoned PnP games for the x-box, simply because they get the same type of excitement (or better) for less effort. As video games become more advanced, more versatile, more interactive, more people will start to wonder what the reward is in spending all that time and effort to play a PnP game.

PnP games and video games serve the same function in the market place and are therefore competitors. Yes, there are differences between them, but they serve the same purpose (recreational wargaming and/or "role playing").

When talking about the industry on these (En World) boards a year or so ago, Gary Gygax stated that “competition from video games is fierce.”

So I’m not the only person who sees the market in these terms.

I agree with your point, Warden, that PnP games do offer a lot more versatility to the game master, thus making them better tools for creativity. But I think that’s changing. Neverwinter Nights and other interactive games can be modified and scenarios for them can be designed by players. Shareware created by fans (skins, scererios, maps, etc) are also widely available. Plus, the live aspect of interactive games challenges PnP games in a way that no video game ever has before.

For what its worth, I personally hope that 4e includes some sort of optional software enhancement tool that is upgradeable (by the user), and works seamlessly with the core rules, making it sort of a hybrid PnP/console game.
3e has stuff sorta like that now, but I'd really like to see the next generation be fully integrated with the game. Perhaps 4e will only be a PnP game for those who don’t have game consoles or those who prefer the “old school” method of gaming….

You could almost say that about 3e right now…..

 

[DragonSword]

Has the Gaming industry evolved: My feeling is NO. This industry is basically the same industry it was in the beginning. While compared to another industry that evolved out of us, video games, looks nothing like they did when they started out. They have evolved and are thriving. Why haven we seen to follow their path? Can we follow their path? What can we learn from what they have done?

The main reason for the video game industry being so fast moving and evolving so quickly is because of technological advancement. There is constantly new technology, whether it is bluetooth, updated processing power or whatever.

In the RPG industry, I think the same thing has happened. What about the rise of PDF publishing? What about the use of laptops, data projection etc in game? These are both advancements along the same lines.

Also, electronic delivery has led to the distance between the consumer and publishers being closed down. Surely that is a good thing?

 

[lmpjr007]

Using that logic, McDonalds would be the most superior restaurant around... how many billions have they served now? That many people can't be wrong, right?

Yet, you and I can easily name restaurants that are clearly superior to McDonalds, right?

But what is McDonalds trying to be superior at? Are they the best upscale restaurants? No, they are trying to do that. Are they the best at serving an inexpensive hamburger? Yes. And they have that market locked down. If you really want to go to the extreme, McDonalds is not even really about burgers, it is a real estate. McDonalds has some of the best real estate in the world. Just think about how much land they have store on.

 

[Black Knight]

Video games have broader market appeal because they are dumbed-down and simplified, just like hip-hop music and Paris Hilton.

Great! Now I gotta toss all my video games.

Back on topic... I am not a publisher, but I am a game designer. Has the market gone bad? Nope. The consumers have gotten smarter (no offense meant to any consumers here). They realize that a great deal of the insipid drivel they were being force fed over the last 30+ years is exactly that. They have refined their tastes and are now looking for the "higher quality than McDonalds meals", though those kids' meals are still the staple of PnP gaming.

Should there be an evolutionary step or revolution in PnP gaming? Should... probably, will it come soon... probably not. The most major advances I've seen in my years of gaming is:

• the evaporation of the "evil game" tag that drove gaming into a subculture to begin with. THAT is a major step for the industry. Heck, even the largest openly Christian chain store in the world (also the #1 company in the world, by sales volume) stocks roleplaying games on its shelves (if you are lucky enough to live by one of these Wal~Marts, bring every gamer you know to buy from there... Wal~Mart will stock more RPGs to meet the demand).
• better quality (physically and content) products are more a norm than the rough gems in the past (look at TSR/WotC, Palladium, and SJG products pre- and post-White Wolf)
• the PDF format is riding the wave if the internet
• the OGL made it possible for smaller or unknown companies/designers to break through the draconian walls of gaming and into something of a cult status (not to pick on anyone, but guys like Keith Baker and Mike Mearls)

Video games advance as fast (or try to) as the technology they are played on. PnP games don't have that requirement (all you really need is imagination). However, I see some publishers (especially electronic publishers like Code Monkey and Ronin Arts, and companies like Fluid Entertainment) taking advantage of the ambient technology around the gaming table and bringing it towards the game. Laptops and desktops are more common now than 30 years ago, so their use is also moving towards the game table (I have 3 GM's Screens, 2 dice rollers, and about a dozen other automated generators for when I get stuck on NPC and location names).

Should our industry cater to the lowest common denominator, like hip-hop, Paris Hilton, and video games? Or should we take the "high road"? MY answer to both is a resounding "NO!" A middle ground is a good place to go. It's taken us 30 years to get this far, from obscure sub-culture of war gaming to underground counter culture to polite common acceptance. Take a page from Sam Walton's book on business, Wal~Mart was not built in a day.