Evolutionary Fantasy

[Clavis]

My campaign worlds have tended towards the underlying assumption that the "gods" didn't really exist, and what intelligent beings worshiped were at best non-corporeal but magically potent creatures that pretended to be primordial powers (but were really just evolved beings like everybody else). I assume clerical miracles are actually just another form of magic, and those who think they are "granted" their miracles by deities are actually self-deluded. I've always cast the dominant religion of my campaign worlds in an adversarial role to the PCs (my players tend not to be fans of large-scale organized religion themselves).

In my present campaign, I have "Philosophers", who are mechanically identical to clerics, but are militantly atheistic. They can even turn and destroy undead, by rationally demonstrating that there are no such things as ghosts or zombies!

 

[Reynard]

Very true, though I expect that the OP wants a single, self-contained evolutionary game world outside the usual "cosmology" of D&D (or variants thereof).

More to the point, for this particular thought experiemnt, opening up multiple planes or dimensions undermines the basic conceit of a natural universe where magic happens to be a component.

As far as the OP's question about dragons, maybe the reptilian-dominant ecosystem survived on one continent (heh, a large one), and dragons only rarely make it over to the mammalian-dominant continent. You'd just need a clever enough extinction history.

Another possibility is to give them a long enough lifespan that even a slowly dwindling population over the course of a million or three years will not mean they are extinct by the time civilization takes hold. By simple virtue of thousands of years between generations, dragons can be a failing species on its way out but still exist here and there -- making them all the more rare and keeping them a horrifying throwback to an era before "man" walked on two legs.

Another issue to consider is the role of clerics; other divine casters are probably easier, but you probably want to think about that.

I figure that ultimately the division between "divine" and "arcane" magic would be removed entirely. Certainly religions would exist, and certain religions would make magic a central power, and even call it "divine", but in the end it would all be tapping the same source. Perhaps some cultures would call those people with more innate, less academic magical talents "divine" and they would be the priestly caste; other cultures might do the opposite. In the end, if the idea ever got that far, I would probably rewrite the magic system in such a way that there'd be three basic classes -- a warlock type class, a sorcerer type class and a wizard type class, at least from the perspective of how they access and use magic -- and spell lists would be used to create the appropriate flavor. I.E. a traditional D&D cleric would likely be a sorcerer-type with a spell list that included a lot of the traditional cleric spells.

 

[freyar]

I figure that ultimately the division between "divine" and "arcane" magic would be removed entirely. Certainly religions would exist, and certain religions would make magic a central power, and even call it "divine", but in the end it would all be tapping the same source. Perhaps some cultures would call those people with more innate, less academic magical talents "divine" and they would be the priestly caste; other cultures might do the opposite. In the end, if the idea ever got that far, I would probably rewrite the magic system in such a way that there'd be three basic classes -- a warlock type class, a sorcerer type class and a wizard type class, at least from the perspective of how they access and use magic -- and spell lists would be used to create the appropriate flavor. I.E. a traditional D&D cleric would likely be a sorcerer-type with a spell list that included a lot of the traditional cleric spells.

This is something along the lines of what I was thinking. Spontaneous spell casting (as opposed to warlock stuff) belongs to a hybrid sorceror/cleric.

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

Given the number of sentient races in D&D, I suggest allowing only one kingdom or culture per race. That is, there is the Human Kingdom, Elven Kingdom, Dwarven Kingdom, Halfling Kingdom, Gnome Kingdom, Orc Kingdom, Goblin Kingdom, Hobgoblin Kingdom, Kobold Kingdom, Gnoll Kingdom, Bugbear Kingdom, Ogre Kingdom, Troll Kingdom, Hill Giant Kingdom, Lizardfolk Kingdom, et cetera. Heck that's 15 kingdoms right there! You could expand some of the kingdoms by breed, e.g. High Elven Kingdom, Gray Elven Kingdom, Wood Elven Kingdom, Wild Elven Kingdom, et cetera. There's what, 30 or 40 sentient races in 3rd edition?

Makes a lot more sense to me than all these fantasy kingdoms that are alledgedly run by Humans but have in reality a good 15 - 20 sentient races in each and every kingdom. Not to mention every village, town, and city is as cosmopolitan as Mos Eisley. How in the world did all these societies get so integrated and multicultural? Must every village in the entire world have a Dwarven smith? Must every tavern in the entire world look like the Mos Eisley Cantina?!? But I digress into a rant….

 

[Teflon Billy]

Part of the idea, though, is to eliminate the idea of extra-planar elements, as they break the "evolutionary" aspect pretty succinctly. For example, aberrations are better served as a totally divergent, underdark evolutionary line/system that eventually breaks through to the surface.

Yeah, I actually thought of that about 20 minutes after I posted. Though the Underdark thing is neat...entirely divergent lines of evolution.

Interesting stuff

 

[Reynard]

Given the number of sentient races in D&D, I suggest allowing only one kingdom or culture per race. That is, there is the Human Kingdom, Elven Kingdom, Dwarven Kingdom, Halfling Kingdom, Gnome Kingdom, Orc Kingdom, Goblin Kingdom, Hobgoblin Kingdom, Kobold Kingdom, Gnoll Kingdom, Bugbear Kingdom, Ogre Kingdom, Troll Kingdom, Hill Giant Kingdom, Lizardfolk Kingdom, et cetera. Heck that's 15 kingdoms right there! You could expand some of the kingdoms by breed, e.g. High Elven Kingdom, Gray Elven Kingdom, Wood Elven Kingdom, Wild Elven Kingdom, et cetera. There's what, 30 or 40 sentient races in 3rd edition?

Makes a lot more sense to me than all these fantasy kingdoms that are alledgedly run by Humans but have in reality a good 15 - 20 sentient races in each and every kingdom. Not to mention every village, town, and city is as cosmopolitan as Mos Eisley. How in the world did all these societies get so integrated and multicultural? Must every village in the entire world have a Dwarven smith? Must every tavern in the entire world look like the Mos Eisley Cantina?!? But I digress into a rant….

In the resultant setting, I think there'd be a far sight fewer sentient species than one finds in the MM, with a greater emphasis placed on individual, unique monsters (magic as a mutagen) and cultural conflicts. One would kind of have to go through the MM and cut a lot of monsters and mark some others as being rare "living fossils", unique entities created by accident or design, or part of the evolutionary chain and therefore given a place. For example, would Dire creatures work best as the remnants of the pre-ice-age world, as creatures modified by powerful magics, or as bigger than average but otherwise standard animals? The answer to that question will impact the presumed ecosystem.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I've never really assumed a 'the gods did it' approach to world-building nor have I ever subscribed to the idea that all Temperate Hills everywhere contain Hobgoblins (or whatever). so most of the D&D speciation already works for me if we assume an evolutionary approach.

Multiple intelligent species might work best if the world has smaller continents so we can look to Australia as a model; elves originally come from this one small island chain to Hell and gone across the ocean and really only have 'colonies' in the main campaign area. Dwarves come from that isolated northen ice-hell continent that's only half myth. They and other species never had to compete with anyone else for space or resources before.

A somewhat similar idea, though maybe outside the flavor the OP is going for, would be humanoid races as having been selectively bred by a former master species (maybe dragons before the extinction event* which smashed their civilization and let their pets go free). While this is not fully free evolutionary, it remains atheistic - with their lifespans, dragons as they exist in the D&D world are fully capable of hobby breeding all the phb races out of a base humanoid stock for pets and workers.

An idea for treating magic as a natural force - magnetic field switching . The "extinction event" separating the dragon age from the human age could be a change of magical polarity of sorts. Dragons, having unadaptively long generations, had their civilization wreaked by the upheaval (though they are finally adapted enough to be making a comeback?), while their domesticated humanoids evolved comparatively quickly to be able to use the altered magic energy. (Elves, being the longest lived of the humanoids, still tend towards the studied use of wizardry to do magic, while the faster breeding races are more likely to have sorcerers and warlocks.) Savage humanoid races could have spawned during that switch as well, as a result of temporary magical hotspots....

 

[Rothe]

... alternatively, Athiest Fantasy.

I have been watching a lot of History/Discovery Channel and the processes by which our world came to be the way it is are both mystifying and inspiring. The confluence of chance and physical laws have created a deeply complex, wonderous world teaming with life. What's more, it has done so a number of times throughout the history of the world. Applying this power and wonder to a fantasy world should be easy, no?

So, here's the deal: no gods or divine intervention. Magic is a fundamental aspect of nature, the fifth fundamental force, if you will. Creatures can and will adapt to, and therefore evolve with respect to, magic just as they do to other environmental factors and pressures. The point is to get a rough view of the evolutionary and geological history of a "typical" D&D world.

The most visible and perhaps easiest issue to deal with is multiple sentient species. In our own evolutionary history, there were multiple species sharing the planet at the same time (even if homo sapiens eventually won out). Perhaps a single "progenitor" species spread acros the globe relatively early on but geological upheaval and/or climate change isolated individual groups in distinct environments for an extensive period of time. humans and halflings might have developed side by side, while elves (and the various subspecies) developed under different conditions (perhaps in a region with a higher level of ambient magic), and so on for dwarves, goblinoids, orcs/ogres and giant-kin (and so on). Eventually the conditions that isolated the groups would end or be overcome and the races would come into contact with one another, but well after any individual species was able to drive another to extinction.

Another core lement that must be addressed but isn't as easy to explain are the iconic monsters of fantasy: dragons. Their evolution can be assumed in much the same way as the various sentient species', but with a much greater influence by magic in their evolution. Perhaps dragons were once the apex predators of a pre-mammalian world analagous to the age of dinosaurs, but managed to survive the great mass extinction -- enough to continue on without being so prevalent as to hinder the other species' development. Too many dragons and the proto-demi-humans would never have a chance to flourish, and too few and they would die out long before they could ever be a threat in the game.

That's enough for now. Thoughts?

Here is my approach to this. Evolutionary history is pretty much "normal" until very, very recently. That is magic existed as a background force but was poorly tapped and not really understood. It had only the most subtle of effects on evolution. All the major intelligent species (chose what you wish) are normal in that their biology does not require magic.

In this way all the biological and evolutionary history of the real world can be borrowed and modified for use in the setting. That is the effects of magic on evolution do not need to be contemplated and extrapolated.

Magic is introduced into the setting at anything approaching a D&D level only about 100,000 to 50,000 years ago. The ability to use magic also followed an evolutionary process. First only 1st level spells could be accessed and the "gods" contacted poorly. As time went on, knowledge increased and more and more powerful spells became available.

Now the discovery of magic (it increased use) I see as having a magical mutagenic influence on the environment. Thus many or most monsters that rely upon magic arose from normal populations through this magical pollution/background. Some could breed true others still arise from normal creatures. (Hence on explanation of how monsters can still arise in settled areas). The "magical" intelligent species especially the half-man ones such as centaurs (I can really think of no evolutionary path that makes much sense for such) arose from such mutation. Centaurs maybe from a tribe that were great horsemen.

In addition, once magic becomes available it might start being used to experiment and later creatures, another source of monsters. This is my preferred origin for dragons. I postulate they were first long flightless worms designed to get into dwarven strongholds and destroy them (hence the fire breath). The dwarves changed there stronghold design from narrow entry tunnels to great vaulted entry halls to rain down missiles on these worms. The dragon creator then added wings to dragons 2.0 to address this changed.

One can also factor in how much "background" magic there was and still remains to tailor how possible it remains to make new monsters. IMC I postulated a "comet" that struck the world bring an ore with highly concentrated magical energy. In its raw state it is highly mutagenic (discovered after it was too late). The potential power of this ore was discovered in the early days when magic was poorly understood. Those who were involved in the original mining and transport of such ore became many of the intelligent fantasy species of my setting. The premier horse clan became the centaur (one morning the humans and horse work up as centaurs, some where humans that became centaurs other s horses that became centaurs. It is still an insult/internal division if you're ancestor was a horse or human. It's something they don't talk about. ) Likewise, giants, giant eagles, etc. arose from contact with this ore.

Those are some of my thoughts.

 

[Eidalac]

As far as dragons:

The Draconomicon says that dragons are innately magical - even on the biologic level. The phycial matter they eat plays only a tiny roll in their biology, preferences aside they can feed on rocks and dirt just as well as cows.

Raw magical energy is there primary sustenance.

So, we may presume that, in the primal start of this world, when seas of lava and water still clashed and the barriers between planes were raw and bleeding magic into the world, the first forms of life were the Elementals, born out of the unfathomable energies of the first days [Assume no planar travel, all Elementals and other such normally extraplanar creatures would be from this time.]

As time moved on, the energies were expended or absorbed into the elements of the world as they stabilized. [Giving the elemental energies as well as the foundation of material components]

In some places, the energies were still too great to be fully absorbed, and mutated the elements. However, the power needed to birth true Elementals was lost, so the transformation took longer and produced something else entirely. [These would be the progenitors of creatures with elemental subtypes, including dragons.]

While these primal cauldrons formed, portions of the new world were left without any of the magical energies, and the processes of life began much as they did on Earth. However, the energies of the primal cauldrons affected life lived long near them, producing mutations as the ages ground forward. [This is the foundation for most of the odd speciation, most of these mutations are very subtle and minor, but latter on will become the catalyst for larger changes.]

In time life emerged in a form we woudl recognize. However, so do did life we would not. From the primal cauldrons came things both strange and wounderous, and some terrible, all bound to the oldes magical energies of creation itself.

In the deep, Aboleth build an empire, and the first Dragons wared in the sky above. Other species were birthed, but most were forced to elude the most ancient to arise, else hide in the deep places under the earth [What can I say, I like Aboleths. ]

However, these ancient races, born from magic, were born dying. Without the energies of magic, they could not sustane themselves, and in time they fell into privative states, struggling to survive as individuals. [Thus any 'rare' race is limited - they have to have sufficient ambient magic, so are unable to sustane a concentrated population]

As these first titans withdrew, other life, magical and mundan, was free to develop. In some cases, the elders themselves devolved into more basic forms, giving rise to yet new races and species. [Things like drakes and dinosaurs could represent a species of dragon that adapted to lowering levels of magic.]

From this point on, it continues about as others have described above. I know I mostly focused on dragons above, but you can extroplate for any other highly magical race in much the same way.

 

[jgbrowning]

Thoughts?

Perhaps viewing magic not only as a force against which things evolve but also as a force that increases evolution? Like a catalyst that increases genetic diversity. This way you could have dragons be one of the earliest creatures evolved and to have been one of the few to evolve to resist this diversifying force instead of embracing it.

Just a thought...

joe b.