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Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
exalted.jpg

Kickstarter Link

Backed in 20 minutes.

Update: Storyteller screen unlocked. More stretch goals should be forthcoming.

 
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Desh-Rae-Halra

Explorer
I think I like the look of the Deluxe better than the Orichalcum version... I'm glad people are excited for it, but honestly the target date should be like May or June 2014 if you look at Onyx Path's track record, plus the added bonus of typos identified but not fixed (based on W20), and that Print-on-Demand (though non-deluxe) will most likely be available before the backers get this.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
I definitely agree that the Deluxe Edition* looks better, but when it comes to design I'm more of a minimalist. It's important to note that the Kick Starter is definitely meant for those of us who care about presentation - if you just want the book in print it's probably best to wait for the POD copy.

It's nice to see details about 3e finally surface. I particularly enjoyed Holden's overview of the combat system.

Holden via White Wolf boards said:
It's that time. For those of you joining us from Kickstarter-land or other forums, welcome :D

Just a little preliminary before we get started though—I know everyone really wants to see this but for the sake of my sanity as I reply to the thread please try to keep the following in mind:

• The point of this thread is to explain the play dynamic of the EX3 combat engine. I'm not showing off the mechanics of the EX3 combat engine in this thread. The combat rules are 7,000 words long, and I put them all there so the rules would be clear and cover everything. I don't want to show off just part of the rules and leave people walking away thinking we missed stuff! I also am not going to post the entire combat rules section before the book is out because I want you to actually buy the book to play the game :p

(For the sake of comparison, the EX2 combat rules were about 17,000 words long; this is a much leaner system.)

• This isn't the EX2 combat engine plus slight clean-up. The old paradigm does not apply, EX3 has not been built around it. It's not the nWoD engine either. It is a new thing that should be easy to grasp and use for long-time White Wolf fans (and also for newcomers), but also visibly different from anything they've used before in a WW game. Anyone citing the EX2 combat engine as a reason this or that won't work gets banished to the land of wind and ghosts!

• This thread is going to have lots of people flocking to it to read this post from the Kickstarter and other messageboards, so let's try not to get too much blood on the floor in front of our guests

Okay, that said--

The Philosophy of EX3 combat.

Exalted 1 and Exalted 2 both used what I think of an 'action model' combat engines-- that is to say, when you rolled your dice pool, that represented a discrete action. This dice roll is an attack, for example, and it tells me how good the attack is.

This is a good model in that it feels very textured and involved-- "my roll represents my attack, and because I'm a ferociously skilled swordsman, I get to roll a lot of dice." That's visceral, and good.

The problem of the system was that what Exalted wanted to emulate, when two of its larger-than-life heroes battled, was the martial clashes of cinema (whether this meant Errol Flynn, Chinese wuxia, or Jedi lightsaber battles was largely up to the tastes of the group playing). And Exalted did a fairly faithful job of recreating this! Unfortunately, an action-by-action recitation of such a battle usually looks like this: *whiff* *whiff* *whiff* *whiff* *whiff* *whiff* *whiff* *whiff* *whiff* *dead*

That's faithful to the source material, but we felt that it had problems as a gameplay model-- as a player, it was frustrating. It felt like you were getting nowhere, until very suddenly you won or lost. But in the epics, and in cinema (again, this is true whether you're talking Shaw Brothers kung fu, Lu Bu vs the Brotherhood of the Peach Orchard, or Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader), most of the storytelling of the fight is contained in that "dead zone" where every swing is getting blocked or dodged or only banging the enemy around and otherwise generally not accomplishing its main goal of killing or defeating the other guy. It's not just whiff-whiff-whiff-- we can look at that fight and see how the momentum of the battle is running, we can tell who's winning and losing, and we can tell when someone has just pulled a marvelous reversal and is mounting a comeback. When Luke and Vader fight in Empire Strikes Back, Darth Vader only strikes a single blow that really injures Luke-- the last one that cuts off his hand-- but we can see that Vader is clearly dominating the fight before that. Luke makes a desperate strike near the end, but only manages to graze Vader's arm and goad him on finish things by battering Luke to the end of the bridge and ending the fight with a decisive blow. That's good storytelling, that's an exciting fight scene-- much more than just the sum of "whiff whiff whiff whiff over."

That's what EX3 aims to capture, by turning the 'dead zone' into something compelling.

In Exalted Third Edition, the majority of attacks heroes launch at one another don't damage the opponent's health track*. Instead, these attacks are used to build momentum, gain the upper hand, and place the character in an advantageous position relative to his opponent(s!). They are also calculated to stymie the enemy's attempts to do the same, to disrupt his tempo, and to confound his efforts to harm you. If an attack of this sort succeeds, then it might force the opponent back, batter down his defenses, push him into disadvantageous position, or even land a blow that rattles him but inflicts no telling injury.

Once you feel you've garnered sufficient advantage, your character can attempt to launch an attack which can damage the enemy's Health Track-- and if you've fought well enough, picked your moment well, and the dice are with you, you might even slay your opponent in a single well-aimed blow, striking off his head or running him through! However, attempting to strike such a blow with undue haste can be quite risky-- it might even create an opportunity for the opponent to turn the tables completely, and seize control of the fight!

This is the battle dynamics philosophy of EX3, and is the result its combat engine has been designed to realize.

*Note: This is a mechanical abstraction intended to represent the ebb and flow of cinematic combat, not an actual thing that exists in the setting. When a Solar and an Abyssal are swinging daiklaves at one another, they very much are trying to cut and kill their enemy with each blow-- even if we, the players, know that all the attacks this round are able to do is to win them advantage.

My chief concern right now is that the developers might be spending too much time managing the KickStarter. Those charms are not going to write themselves. I do think it's a positive sign that unlike a lot of KickStarters they aren't adding too much in the way of additional obligations that would increase the scope of the project.

* The Deluxe Edition looks really good though. I'm extremely happy that we will know get 3 bookmark ribbons.
 
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smartmonkey

First Post
Yeah, the KS is on track to be pretty huge. Considering that it took their previous effort almost the whole month to break 300k, Exalted 3 is looking pretty nuts.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
I'm really enjoying Onyx Path's willingness to take a critical look at both setting and mechanics. Some fans will disagree with me, but I'm ecstatic that they have shown a willingness to shake up the power levels of the splats and redesign the game's combat paradigm. I'm an unabashed Solar fan, but in order for their narrative to have meaning they need meaningful and competent opposition, rivals, and allies.

Here's an example of fiction for you all:
[sblock=Update 8]
Chapter Fiction

Note: This is a working draft and subject to change before publication.

Exalted Third Edition will feature a number of pieces of short fiction, the better to illustrate various elements of its setting and the heroes that inhabit it. Previewed below is a fiction excerpt of the sort that will appear at the front of each chapter of the book.

Seven Devil Clever had come across a whole world to see this vista, and it pleased her greatly to have made the trip. She had twined herself around the upper branches of a vast and mighty oak, growing on a hillside far above the city of Faxai.

The city was clearly defined below her, a brightly lit figure inside its formal walls. Outside the walls there were the occasional light crystals and flaring torches of outriders, but otherwise, darkness. She exulted at the sight, knowing the vast expenditures of resources that must be required for the Realm to keep that little chunk of light burning so terribly far from home, with no ability to raise its own food or supply its own merchandise. When Faxai fell, the Caul would belong utterly to the Lunar Exalted.

She dropped down into the darkness where the others waited. There was another Lunar, an older Full Moon who had brought her here, no doubt at great risk. She had wanted to urge him to stay behind—it was not as if two of them could overmatch a Wyld Hunt together, any more than she could alone.

But if there were words that could demonstrate to a Lunar warrior without insult that he should abstain from a fight he clearly desired to court, Seven Devil Clever’s tongue was not preternaturally swift enough to utter them. He was here of his own accord; the law of the Lunar tribe was that he could have let her scamper to her death unaided. She was no sworn kin of his, this was not a mission requested by the Silver Pact. Yet here he was, with his personal guard as well. Seven Devil Clever thought he might want to bang her like a fine drum, but she didn’t want to raise her tail to such a gruesome old buck, and had made that clear long before the journey started.

They walked for a while, Seven Devil Clever a grey ghost amidst the rangy, leaping gait of the ape-men that accompanied her. When they were well past the crest and downslope, he signaled for her to stop. Did he think the occupiers in their city could hear them whispering all the way out here, leagues away in the forest? A fact worth noting.

“Did you like what you saw?”

“Fantastic, Mangler. They’re bottled up tight in there. Do they get out at all?”

“Oh yes. The night makes it look especially dramatic, that’s why I chose to show you this vista during the hours of darkness, but don’t be fooled. They’ve been fighting us for years and they’re not dead yet. They have excellent light discipline and they are very aggressive about controlling the space outside their walls. They can’t use it, but you had better think twice before you try to. There’s a reason we’re looking at it from so far away. Their operations can range out even as far as this, but not much farther. Wyld Hunts will ride much farther, of course.”

Seven Devil Clever nodded. “This is an awesome fight you’re in.” She meant it sincerely. She was watching the snake of the Realm held down by its head and strangled, and deftly at that.

“Thank you, I take great pride in it. I helped do that.”

Ah ha. Now she knew why he was showing it to her. Bragging rights.

“How long until they’re gone?”

“No more than five years, we think.”

“Mouse in your pocket?”

“You could say I speak for the council of senior Full Moons, among whom I am the least. I am told our plans have the favor of His Divine Lunar Presence.”

Everything gained so much clarity.

“It’s true, then? The black lion is active again?” Neither of them quite dared to breathe the name Sha’a Oka into the night.

A smile revealed ivory fangs. “We want you to see what we can accomplish, Seven Devil Clever. We want you to think about what you could accomplish if you ran with us. This is the time for the strong to assert themselves.”[/sblock]

smartmonkey said:
Yeah, the KS is on track to be pretty huge. Considering that it took their previous effort almost the whole month to break 300k, Exalted 3 is looking pretty nuts.

Even after settling down to a more relaxed pace, Exalted 3e is still way ahead of where Numenera was at this point ($18k/day vs. $9/k). Of course I don't know that there will be nearly as much of a tail spike. This Kickstarter was well advertised and with the Exalted team's schedule being pretty much full they really cannot afford to add content as a stretch goal.
 
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smartmonkey

First Post
Even after settling down to a more relaxed pace, Exalted 3e is still way ahead of where Numenera was at this point ($18k/day vs. $9/k). Of course I don't know that there will be nearly as much of a tail spike. This Kickstarter was well advertised and with the Exalted team's schedule being pretty much full they really cannot afford to add content as a stretch goal.

The goals they're talking about look pretty reasonable in scope - previews for later content (infernals, etc) would be something I wouldn't be surprised to see expanding.
 


smartmonkey

First Post
$100 for the physical book is too much for me

It's not for a plain copy of the book - that'll be available when the book is released. This is for the deluxe, leather-bound, gold-embossed version. The actual corebook is supposed to be going for 60 bucks, cheaper if you take the black and white printing.
 

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